Forums Archive RPGMP3 Chatter The Banewarrens The only sane Response to the Banewarrens…

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  • #553400
    wolfsnap
    • Posts : 470
    • Thri-kreen

    Was having a conversation with some folks on another forums with regards to the Banewarrens, and I made this observation, which I thought it might be fun to share:

    I thought the whole premise for the Banewarrens was, while inventive, kind of a cruel joke on the PCs. I mean, you’ve got thie entire wonderous trap-filled dungeon to explore, crawling with monsters and stuffed treasure and other cool stuff – but the treasures and cool stuff are all unspeakably evil, and will kill you likely as not. And the very act of exploring the dungeon means releasing all manner of untold evil on the world. Exploring dungeons is pretty much hardwired into adventurers’ DNA, and this adventure is in a way all about punishing that instinct. The only sane response to the Banewarrens would be to seal it off as much as possible, re-bury the available entrances, and put up a huge, warded “Do Not Disturb” sign.

    #584924
    Fox
    • Posts : 371
    • Thri-kreen
    wolfsnap wrote:
    Was having a conversation with some folks on another forums with regards to the Banewarrens, and I made this observation, which I thought it might be fun to share:

    I thought the whole premise for the Banewarrens was, while inventive, kind of a cruel joke on the PCs. I mean, you’ve got thie entire wonderous trap-filled dungeon to explore, crawling with monsters and stuffed treasure and other cool stuff – but the treasures and cool stuff are all unspeakably evil, and will kill you likely as not. And the very act of exploring the dungeon means releasing all manner of untold evil on the world. Exploring dungeons is pretty much hardwired into adventurers’ DNA, and this adventure is in a way all about punishing that instinct. The only sane response to the Banewarrens would be to seal it off as much as possible, re-bury the available entrances, and put up a huge, warded “Do Not Disturb” sign.

    That is so bloody true. To add even more insult to injury, you have this GIANT city to explore and an entire setting for adventure and instead the adventurers are set off exploring this fantasy flavored nuclear waste site, mucking around with things man is not mean tot touch. That’s just cruel, they get to be off playing in a playground of big nasties instead of up on the bloody surface in the city itself!

    Forget all this other opportunity for non-world destroying adventure. Why don’t you go fooling around down in this dungeon that’s a veritable pandora’s box of horrors! And just by noodling around, your now morally obligated to seal it back up and/or be responsible for whatever horror’s are unleasehd! Lucky you!!

    #584925
    Sinister-Ornament
    • Posts : 935
    • Gelatinous Cube
    Quote:
    fantasy flavored nuclear waste site, mucking around with things man is not mean tot touch. That’s just cruel, they get to be off playing in a playground of big nasties instead of up on the bloody surface in the city itself!

    😆 😆 😆

    I’m imagining a toybox full of wonderous but poisonous toys now…

    #584926
    Fox
    • Posts : 371
    • Thri-kreen
    Sinister-Ornament wrote:
    Fox wrote:
    fantasy flavored nuclear waste site, mucking around with things man is not mean tot touch. That’s just cruel, they get to be off playing in a playground of big nasties instead of up on the bloody surface in the city itself!

    😆 😆 😆

    I’m imagining a toybox full of wonderous but poisonous toys now…

    Well they did find that room of magical evil weapons and stuff. So in a way it was a toybox… of sorts. 😉

    #584927
    Balgin
    • Posts : 2127
    • Succubus
    Fox wrote:
    That is so bloody true. To add even more insult to injury, you have this GIANT city to explore and an entire setting for adventure and instead the adventurers are set off exploring this fantasy flavored nuclear waste site, mucking around with things man is not mean tot touch. That’s just cruel, they get to be off playing in a playground of big nasties instead of up on the bloody surface in the city itself!

    Hey, does this mean you get to destroy one of Monte Cook’s creations and be proud of the fact untill you realise that he wanted you to?

    #584928
    wolfsnap
    • Posts : 470
    • Thri-kreen
    Balgin wrote:
    Hey, does this mean you get to destroy one of Monte Cook’s creations and be proud of the fact untill you realise that he wanted you to?

    Not sure what you mean? What I find counter-intuitive about the whole thing is that you’ve got the whole dungeon mapped out and populated, begging to be explored, when the only way to really successfully conclude the scenario is to NEVER GO IN. The best solution to the Banewarrens involves several tons worth of “Move Earth” and “Rock to Mud to Rock” spells.

    What group of PCs is going to do that? Honestly! What DM is going to encourage that? Especially after he paid to run them through the adventure! 😛

    #584929
    Thing
    Admin
    • Posts : 4512
    • Drider

    Isn’t sealing off the Banewarrens what the original creators tried? Things don’t stay burried for long. You need a squard of rightous PCs with a sphere of annihlation.

    #584930
    Balgin
    • Posts : 2127
    • Succubus

    Yes but Monte Cook created it therefore it is broken therefore you must destroy it for it is wicked and he is even giving you the means (bad stuff) motive (he made it) and opportunity (access to the bad stuff) to do so. How cool is that? :p

    #584931
    Thing
    Admin
    • Posts : 4512
    • Drider
    Balgin wrote:
    Yes but Monte Cook created it therefore it is broken therefore you must destroy it for it is wicked and he is even giving you the means (bad stuff) motive (he made it) and opportunity (access to the bad stuff) to do so. How cool is that? :p

    I don’t think it is broken, but it does break the mold of adventures normally being dungeons filled with moderatly guarded treasure that is useful to PCs.

    Now taking an evil party through the Banewarrens, or a good party with 1 or 2 secretly evil members would be intersting.

    #584932
    Fox
    • Posts : 371
    • Thri-kreen
    wolfsnap wrote:
    What group of PCs is going to do that? Honestly! What DM is going to encourage that? Especially after he paid to run them through the adventure! 😛

    What do I care? I got the whole bloody book! I can run them through other parts and other sections for adventure! Not just that damned pandora’s box of big bad evil! 😆

    Let’em bury the damn place until the end of time! I’m not out my money on things! 😀

    #584933
    Balgin
    • Posts : 2127
    • Succubus
    Fox wrote:
    wolfsnap wrote:
    What group of PCs is going to do that? Honestly! What DM is going to encourage that? Especially after he paid to run them through the adventure! 😛

    What do I care? I got the whole bloody book! I can run them through other parts and other sections for adventure! Not just that damned pandora’s box of big bad evil! 😆

    Let’em bury the damn place until the end of time! I’m not out my money on things! 😀

    Amusingly we once had a pyromaniac fighter who used to search for treasure after every encounter (to make sure he found everything and the others weren’t hiding anything he could get at), pile it up and burn it in front of them. Unsurprisingly he wasn’t involved in the next adventure that party went on…….

    #584934
    Fox
    • Posts : 371
    • Thri-kreen
    Balgin wrote:
    Fox wrote:
    wolfsnap wrote:
    What group of PCs is going to do that? Honestly! What DM is going to encourage that? Especially after he paid to run them through the adventure! 😛

    What do I care? I got the whole bloody book! I can run them through other parts and other sections for adventure! Not just that damned pandora’s box of big bad evil! 😆

    Let’em bury the damn place until the end of time! I’m not out my money on things! 😀

    Amusingly we once had a pyromaniac fighter who used to search for treasure after every encounter (to make sure he found everything and the others weren’t hiding anything he could get at), pile it up and burn it in front of them. Unsurprisingly he wasn’t involved in the next adventure that party went on…….

    That is a great way to make new friends. And just a smidge bit paranoid if you ask me. 😛

    #584935
    Fox
    • Posts : 371
    • Thri-kreen
    Balgin wrote:
    Fox wrote:
    That is so bloody true. To add even more insult to injury, you have this GIANT city to explore and an entire setting for adventure and instead the adventurers are set off exploring this fantasy flavored nuclear waste site, mucking around with things man is not mean tot touch. That’s just cruel, they get to be off playing in a playground of big nasties instead of up on the bloody surface in the city itself!

    Hey, does this mean you get to destroy one of Monte Cook’s creations and be proud of the fact untill you realise that he wanted you to?

    I get the impression you don’t like his other works? Do I detect a slightly bitter tone in your voice? 😛 Something you want to maybe share with the rest of the class? 😉

    #584936
    Balgin
    • Posts : 2127
    • Succubus
    Fox wrote:
    I get the impression you don’t like his other works? Do I detect a slightly bitter tone in your voice? 😛 Something you want to maybe share with the rest of the class? 😉

    Example number one: weapons.

    In 1st & 2nd Ed the weapons system was blatantly biased in favour of swords. Swords of any type always did a die larger than any equivalent sized weapons (for example, one handed weapons all did a d6 damage but swords did a d8 (or 2d4) whereas an axe or club needed to be a double handed weapon to do a d8 and a two handed sword did 3d6).

    So in 3rd Ed the obvious solution would be to remove the bias. So what did they do? They upgraded all the weapons to do bloody sword damage! WTF?! When only the swords were broken, only the swords needed fixing (simply downgrade them to normal damage and it’d have all been fine). Once they’d given all the weapons more damage they needed to give everyone more hit points (hit dice after 9th level etc, no biggy) and make all the other numbers bigger too for no reason whatsoever apart from to feed their powergamer needs.

    They really didn’t need to do that.

    Monte Cook’s one of the three guys credited with the 3rd Ed rules and he’s the only one who’s making himself a celebrity (one of the other two did a few psionics related 3rd ed things and the other guy hasn’t done anything that anyone’s aware of – he might not even exist).

    Prior to 3rd Ed Monte wrote all those Skills & Powers books with broken shit in them (characters getting build points to buy their racial abilities with and then buy a few extra BS things too because normal characters didn’t have enough to satisfy his cravings).

    At least he admits to being a powergamer but that doesn’t make it a good thing.

    #584937
    Fox
    • Posts : 371
    • Thri-kreen
    Balgin wrote:
    Fox wrote:
    I get the impression you don’t like his other works? Do I detect a slightly bitter tone in your voice? 😛 Something you want to maybe share with the rest of the class? 😉

    At least he admits to being a powergamer but that doesn’t make it a good thing.

    A simple yes would have sufficed. 😛

    Then perhaps it’s a good thing he doesn’t work at WoTC anymore? 😉

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 26 total)
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