- This topic has 17 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 6 months ago by Anonymous.
September 5, 2012 at 5:56 am #557499Anonymous
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To facilitate discussion of the largest single massacre of younglings in the history of the site, I thought I’d do a quick poll. The question has been phrased to not at all be a leading one… It may also be just slightly tongue in cheek…September 5, 2012 at 10:37 am #635919thad
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Where’s the ‘it’s ok, but he really is a monster’ option?
Or the ‘he’s a PC dammit, ethics doesn’t count’?September 5, 2012 at 3:49 pm #635920BigJackBrass
thad wrote:Or the ‘he’s a PC dammit, ethnics doesn’t count’?
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Well, let’s not bring race into this… 😉September 6, 2012 at 6:47 am #635921
As of right now the votes are 50/50, which allows Sigmund to rest easy knowing he did the Neutral thing 😛September 6, 2012 at 8:10 pm #635922Anonymous
Lockhart wrote:As of right now the votes are 50/50, which allows Sigmund to rest easy knowing he did the Neutral thing 😛
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You’re, erm I mean Sigmund’s, holding up pretty well there. Surprisingly good support for someone who perpetrated a massacre of (admittedly goblin) children!!! 😉
In my defence for starting the poll, I do believe it was you who said “let the debate begin” on the other thread… 😀
Ps. Revenge polls are bad form, so don’t even go there. Ta. 8)September 11, 2012 at 9:33 pm #635923
There is a slight lead to the Sigmund is a monster category, but still surprisingly close. I was actually pretty sure I’d be overwhelmingly chastised for Sigmund’s actions here.
Personally though, I think it’s a good defining event for Sigmund thus far. He has the flaws of traditional dwarfish racism, extended to some extremes with goblins (and likely orcs if they show up) and he is not Good. He’s generally polite and well-meaning, but he isn’t above putting some morals to the side and doing what he thinks is ‘right’ for the party and community.September 13, 2012 at 10:00 pm #635924Anonymous
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I think Sigmund’s come out very well in the poll. He’s a straight-down-the-line kind-a-guy and people respect that.
As for the forum members who voted saying it’s ok to massacre goblin kids, well… 😉September 18, 2012 at 4:27 am #635925cammcv
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goblins dont count becuse bobble heds dont count 😈 👿September 19, 2012 at 12:39 am #635926
I am a bit torn to vote. In a classic D&D and fantasy realm you do have absolute, discreet good and evil and in view of the alignment system Sigmunds actions are just fine.
Plus leaving the kids after killing all the adults would not have gone well, and there wasn’t a likelyhood of being able to foster raise them.
Then again, slaughter of the “innocents”.
But either way, it may be fun to digg Sigmund in character about it;)September 19, 2012 at 12:48 pm #635927eformo
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I take it that killing people is generally a bad thing, innocent people even more so.
But these aren’t people, they are goblins. It’s not like there’s any chance of them being not-evil. Since evil is invariably predicated of each and every one, it’s the morally obligatory thing to do.September 19, 2012 at 1:03 pm #635928LightPagoda
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Depends on how tightly creatures in Hal’s world stick to the alignments. I tell my players when I run a game that non-magical intelligent creature alignments are an average of their society rather than necessarily ‘genetic’. Things like intelligent undead and abominations are evil because of what they are generally while things like kobolds and goblins are evil because of their society. The deck is heavily stacked against goblins of course but it would be possible for a neutral one to pop out. Hal may be running his creature alignments more traditionally in which case all those babies were destined to become Evil and squashing them early was the right choice.September 19, 2012 at 1:25 pm #635929
I commend you, LightPagoda, on telling your players how that works in your game world. In RPGs and fantasy literature it is rather convenient to have races and people that are just flat out evil, otherwise making a career of seeking them out and killing them becomes highly questionable.
Many adventuring parties are homeless wanderers that drift into town and ask about to see if someone wants to pay them money to kill something, or if there is a rumour of riches that can be had by going out and killing their owners/guardians. The line between adventurer and psychopathic vagrant is pretty thin at times.September 19, 2012 at 5:02 pm #635930Thing wrote:Plus leaving the kids after killing all the adults would not have gone well, and there wasn’t a likelyhood of being able to foster raise them.
If I was trying to defend Sigmund’s actions, I would probably go with this. Considering that it’d be less than likely that any townsfolk would be willing to foster one goblin, let alone dozens of them, raising them is a huge burden to subject a party too, and being Good does not mean wanting to be a goblin broodmother. Likewise, letting them suffer in a locked room with nothing to eat but each other may be invariably worse.
I think their deaths would be a necessity in almost any party, it might be different if there were more reasonable options like in Monte Cook’s Ptolus where there is the Brotherhood of Redemption that is founded of saving and redeeming evil races, but in this situation the goblin babies are likely to die one way or another unless the party drop everything to raisethem. what matters would be the reaction. Good characters should be extremely remorseful and reluctant and perhaps somewhat scarred by it. Kixy had a fairly good CG level reaction. Not wanting to do the job herself (the chaotic aspect), and feeling very sorry and sad about the whole situation. The Neutral reaction is more resigned, seeing it as a duty or job. The evil reaction is enjoying the whole thing.
There’s probably quite a bit to be said that they were children, not babies, a lot of their behavior and such probably already learned, a fun day for them is probably having a handful of small animals or human children tossed into their nursery to be torn apart.September 19, 2012 at 5:10 pm #635931Lockhart wrote:Good characters should be extremely remorseful and reluctant and perhaps somewhat scarred by it. Kixy had a fairly good CG level reaction. Not wanting to do the job herself (the chaotic aspect), and feeling very sorry and sad about the whole situation. The Neutral reaction is more resigned, seeing it as a duty or job. The evil reaction is enjoying the whole thing.
That’s why Hieronymus only watched part of the action.September 19, 2012 at 11:29 pm #635932LightPagoda
Thing wrote:The line between adventurer and psychopathic vagrant is pretty thin at times.
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I didnt need to bring up the variability of alignment in my Ootak Kingmaker campaign. The group had a standing rule: “If it is smaller than 3 feet, tame it.” This applied to various intelligent creatures even. A mite, a kobold and a worg to name a few. Sadly only the kobolds showed some success. Then of course there was the nearly BDSM style troll blood collecting apparatus in the castle basement as well as the deliberate attempt to induce Stockholm Syndrome on some loggers. As to the pschopathic vagrant, I think I need point no further than Dunny from out Traveller campaign. The episode where he tries to ‘tame’ one the Vargyr (anthro dog alien) pirates comes to mind especially.
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