Joined: Aug 06, 2004 Posts: 5647 Location: Houston, TX
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: DnD5e Anyone?
Just read this...
I was hoping I might be excited about it but it seems that DnD is dead to me after 4e. The books look good but they basically turned it into a minis and card game with some MMO elements and basically flipped the finger at all the tradition and history.
I think it is good that they want to involved their community but I would suggest that their community has now changed so much since the old days that they don't give a damn any more.
With Pathfinder actually being what DnD should have been and them having a nice balance with new book releases that do not escalate the power level into the realms of the stupid rather than the endless run of splat books - I think Wizards is going to have a hard time reviving DnD with a 5th Edition.
Joined: Oct 31, 2005 Posts: 4101 Location: near Seattle, WA USA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject:
I agree with you Hal.
the feel of the game with 4E changed a lot and I think a lot of the old school fans fled to pathfinder and a few other systems. Its going to be a hard slog up hill to try and get those people back. Plus there are probably some current players that either started with 4E and like it so they could risk loosing those players if they switch again.
I came into D&D fairly late into the age of 3.5, so it wasn't too much later that 4e came bursting onto the scene. I tried it, I thought it was a new and unique system, but I continued with 3.5.
The main reason for this was that I was having so much fun with 3.5, there was so much material to explore, modules to run and settings to immerse in. The thought of which was better didnt really occur to me. It was more about how I was having fun with my current toy, and that fun was no where near ending. The new toy would be there if I ran out of stuff to do with 3.5, but that never really happened. With pathfinder continuing the legacy of 3.5, I'm once again without a compelling reason to want to switch to 5e. I'll probably give it a try when the day comes, but I'm a hard sell at this point. Paizo has treated me really good, they've given me a really fun game to play, and there is no reason to abandon that.
There is also the fact that this is all so soon. Pathfinder, their main competition, is only on their 3rd year. They've continued to Excel with fun, flavourful and unique products, they're only getting stronger. If Wotc had given a couple years to let pathfinder lose some ateam and people get bored of it, or better yet wait until pathfinder 2.0 this might be more successful. Then again, maybe they are worried Paizo has the secret ingrediant for only getting stronger, and best to weaken Paizo's market share ASAP.
In any event, if for no reason other than Monte's involvement with WotC, I will be keeping an eye on this with an open mind, waiting to be impressed., and I'll give it a try, but they'd have to make an unexpectedly perfect product to convert me. _________________ Latest Community Releases:
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Joined: Jan 25, 2007 Posts: 1152 Location: Roseville, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject:
Thanks for sharing Hal, I wouldn't have even known since I don't watch the D&D website much since 4e. I'll probably have more to comment once I read the New York Times article and official announcement.
Joined: Aug 06, 2004 Posts: 5647 Location: Houston, TX
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject:
I agree with that... Pathfinder did a great job providing their game free in both Alpha and Beta.
WotC is unlikely to do that I doubt...
Also from comments I have read it looks like things might be heading in a "modular" direction. So I am thinking GURPs model.
Core rules then additional rules in splat books for things like martial arts etc...
I have applied for the open playtest and will see how that goes. Also dropped a couple of emails out there to see if I could get some of the contributor groups involved in the process, if they were interested.
It will be released and then I will get a copy and then I will moan that it is not as good as earlier editions (can't be worse the 4 surely) and then I will not have anyone to blame but myself for not trying to throw opinions and ideas in.
I have nostalgia for DnD but I am not sure that it is the same game it used to be. It has too much corporate shine and very little actual content at the moment. More about releases to earn money that actually providing to the player community.
That said - the community they are talking to is the community the currently plays 4e. So unless there is a mass revolt by the "old guard" to get involved and take the system back it is just going to be more of the same...
Joined: Jul 18, 2009 Posts: 114 Location: Canton OH
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject:
I don't know about the next variant of D&D, heck I really haven't gamed since 2nd ed, but I'll probably buy the core books just because like i did 3rd and 4th. (working on getting the pathfinder core now.). I do have to say thought the old schooler in me doesn't like the new D&D too much but I do have to admit that WoTC has worked to bring it back to a younger generation but at a cost. My personal opinion is that I really like what pazio has done thought. Not just the rule set but I've looked at the SRD website and couldn't believe it. Basically they have given use the game there for free. If I wanted to go from the Biginner box that I was blessed with for christmas to the main game It's all right there for me without paying a thing and that's why I want to support them. I have to say good luck to WoTC with there endeavor but I kinda hope that someway pazio could get the licence for D&D and keep the true spirit of it alive. _________________ Into the Depths - a blog on Papercraft dungeons and other gaming art
I personally find 4e to be lacking in depth altogether.
The homogeny of the classes lends itself to "everyone can play the way they want" but also characters not feeling very unique.
It used to *SUCK* having to HAVE a healer in the party but on the other hand it made every member of the party feel more important.
One thing I will say: 4e is AMAZING to introduce new players and it is also up to the group to make the actual game amazing.
I guess we will wait and see what WotC does with it... I might not pick it up again as I lean more towards freeform RP (less rules, more RP) but D&D is good for those nights of casual dungeon crawling.
Joined: Dec 01, 2007 Posts: 934 Location: Between piles of Hero books & 2000AD graphic novels
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject:
I hope they do a good job. Just can't shake the image of people going "Yeah, it's quite a good Pathfinder copy, but I think I'll just stick with the original (!) Pathfinder if that's ok".
I can totally understand people wanting a copy of the core rules though. I own a few editions of Hero Sytem myself!
Joined: Aug 26, 2008 Posts: 2306 Location: Following the footprints in the sand.
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject:
Like Hal, D&D has been dead to me since 4e. While I don't expect 5e to be a return to traditional D&D play-style I doubt I'm going to be playing it any time soon. The new-ish edition of Savage Worlds has my heart held too strong.
Still, 4e did cause an influx of folks visiting the site, so maybe 5e will repeat that. _________________ On the road again...
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: DnD5e Anyone?
Hal wrote:
I was hoping I might be excited about it but it seems that DnD is dead to me after 4e. The books look good but they basically turned it into a minis and card game with some MMO elements and basically flipped the finger at all the tradition and history.
QFT
I won't be buying 5th edition, for at least a year or two after it comes out, and only then if a lot of people have really good things to say about it (and I've read the .pdf and liked it). _________________ Sig? No thanks, I don't smoke.
The general feeling on the thread seems to mirror my own response to the news, which can be summed up (probably annoyingly) with 'meh'.
D&D seems a very long way now from the many happy hours I wasted my adolescence on, and although like Hal I feel a certain nostalgia for it, the prospect of yet another ruleset after 4E fills me with nothing but apathy. 4E was such a break from the old game that even if they turn it back into something it used to be, I think I'd rather just still with my old rulebooks, or with Pathfinder.
It's a shame, and maybe they're not trying to appeal to us - but then, the hobby is not a big one any more, and so if not us, then who exactly is going to get excited by this announcement? It seems that people who like 4E won't be pleased about a change in direction, and people who don't have moved on to other games. I really can't imagine what a new edition of D&D could do to get either camp interested at the moment. _________________ http://lordof1.blogspot.com - Perspectives from a vet on the front line
Joined: Nov 25, 2008 Posts: 964 Location: Connecticut, USA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject:
I was kind of surprised to hear that they're doing 5e already. It seems like only yesterday...
In any case, I have to mirror the general sentiment of the thread here. By this point, D&D isn't D&D anymore, and while their attempts to ask the fanbase what they want out of the game are nice, by this point we've already got Pathfinder, which, as has been stated below, is pretty much what we wanted. I think it's even got the potential to end D&D myself, but that might be just me.
The problem is, even if 5e is SuperMegaFantastic, WOTC cannot be trusted to not throw it out just 2 years later. 3e lasted only 3 years. 3.5 another 5. 4e lasted only 2, then 4e Essentials have only been around for 1 year.
Who is willing to invest their hard-earned money into a Wizards RPG at this point? It would be insane.
Will this get Pathfinder folks to take a second look (which is what Essentials was intended to accomplish)? Or will they look at the rapid edition change and say "Phew! Thank goodness I dodged that bullet."
The problem is, even if 5e is SuperMegaFantastic, WOTC cannot be trusted to not throw it out just 2 years later. 3e lasted only 3 years. 3.5 another 5. 4e lasted only 2, then 4e Essentials have only been around for 1 year.
This is a huge thing. WotC has really lost all image as anything but a money grubbing company at this point. When Paizo talks about reworking mechanics, they do it from a point of view of 'We've been receiving alot of questions & comments on this, so let's experiment and see if we can find something better'. Their blog articles are interesting alternative rules. If Paizo were to come out with Pathfinder 2.0, I'd believe it would be in an attempt to further streamline the rules and they'd only do it if they truly felt they had an improvement to the system and not to just get more money.
Not to mention Pathfinder does give away their game for free really, all of it. This is a huge trust booster. It kinda says they're more interested in people playing a fun game and spreading the hobby to everyone, which in turn makes you want to support these guys.
It's just, like Vaeron says. Even if 5e is amazing, WotC as a company with their policies and practices are not. I'm still upset how WotC sabotaged their 3.5 sales in order to push 4e when it came out. Continuing to publish 3.5 while doing 4e, and maybe working on a hybrid version, could've been something good for WotC. Or at least better than killing off the popular older product to force people to turn to the newer product. _________________ Latest Community Releases:
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