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#1 krsv1

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:50 AM

I am having a bit of a struggle here and perhaps some of you can sort of point me in the right direction. With out going into all the history, years ago I created my own game world to run 2nd edition in. Eventually me and a friend wanted to see more in a game system so we sat down and created one. People who have played the game gave me the idea to self publish the material but the question of systems came up.

A few people recommended using the Open License and self publishing the work that way. While it would not take much to remove the game mechanics from what I have done I was wondering if it is worth it. The reason being is some of the feed back I have received else where on the net. On one forum the general gist I got was if it’s not D20 almost no one will play it because no one really wants to learn a new system or buy new stuff (of course this was a D20 board). I want to know how people here (Like Hal) feel about this. Will a non D20 game really receive little or no attention and are gamers really staying away from newer material?
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#2 Hal

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:09 AM

I personally am not particualrly drawn to D20 only. I like lots of systems. My big bugbear is when the system does not fit the setting. There were a lot of OGL releases for licences where the magic system was totally inappropraite as there was no work put into it. It was just lifted straight out of D&D.

Some of my favourite systems include, Kult (one of the most realistic and dangerous combat systems ever), Rolemaster (extensive, complete and well formed (once you get used to it)) and My Life With Master (simple and perfect for the game in all respects).

d20 is just a vehicle. The rules are secondary in my opinion to the setting and the game. However I do know some people who exclusively buy d20 products. It can be expensive to branch out into a new system and to be honest there are a lot less systems out there then there used to be.

If you are going to self publish you may consider releasing it as a PDF file through something like DriveThruRPG or RPGNow and ask for feedback. It will also expose the system to optential publishers and it gives you some numbers to throw about as well as some comments when you start approaching people about the hard copy!

Hal :hal:
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#3 WhiteKnight

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:08 AM

I'd echo Hal's comments here. There are a myriad of systems out there, and die-hard fans of many of them. I love Earthdawn, CP2020, Unisystem and Tri-Stat, but would never let learning a new system make me shy away from playing a game with an interesting setting.

The Basic Role-playing System written by Chaosium was probably one of the closest to a multi-genre system. It was used in Runequest (fantasy), Call of Cthulhu (spooky), and Ringworld (Sci-fi), as well as many other less well known settings. I would say that BRP is as popular now as ever, though mostly in it's Call of Cthulhu guise.

Role-master was used in various settings too, with the whole Spacemaster series. There have always been D&D spin offs, like Gamma World, Boot Hill etc. too.

I guess my feeling is that if the game world is good, and you are goign for role-play rather than roll-play, perhaps you need to look at minimising the mechanics and going with a rules-light interpretation. Write your own action resolution system that works for you.
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#4 Salubrai

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 02:58 AM

You talk of Kult quite a bit, Hal. I'm very curious about this system. Might you have an interesting "war story" or antecdote to give us a feel for why you like the system/world so much? Or does anyone else have experience with Kult?
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#5 Keener

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 08:45 AM

Or a game or two of Kult recored and posted. :D
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#6 Balgin

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:01 AM

There were a lot of OGL releases for licences where the magic system was totally inappropraite as there was no work put into it. It was just lifted straight out of D&D.


That is incredibly true. Have you seen the Mongoose Lone Wolf d20 adaptation? I know they're going to completely rework it (preferably making it nond20 but basicaly simplifying it even more (as if that would be possible).

Anyway, in that "d20" system spellcasting bears hp costs and concentration/spellcraft checks (I can't remember which) on top of any concentration checks incurred by taking damage/aoopps.

On top of that there's daily casting allowances that are a lot smaller than standard d20 and the only healing spell in the game requires the caster, and all the recipients, to be standing in a running stream or river (and for the beneficiaries to be within arm's reach of the caster too) although as a GM I'd accept "slumped unconscious in the stream with a few of his mates holding his head above water" as standing :).
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#7 WhiteKnight

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 07:40 AM

You talk of Kult quite a bit, Hal. I'm very curious about this system. Might you have an interesting "war story" or antecdote to give us a feel for why you like the system/world so much? Or does anyone else have experience with Kult?


Everyone who plays has a system or two for which they are the sole GM in their area. I think Kult was probably Hal's little niche game. Though there are a myriad of D20 GM's quite few Rolemaster GM's I don't remember anyone else running Kult in a very long time.

It's one of those systems that allows players to explore the really dark side of their characters personalities, and as such has a sort of taboo appeal for many players.

I've only played it on a couple of occasions, and not owning a copy has generally prevented me from attempting to GM it. Though I'm not sure it is entirely my cup of tea. It is however never a dull system so maybe you will get lucky and Hal will dig it out for future use once he's settled in.
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#8 Sinister-Ornament

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 02:28 PM

All this mention of Kult made me do a search on the Internet for scenario and stuff so I could get a feel for what it was about.

KULT lends itself to an "adults-only" playing style that allows the GM to combine graphic violence, sadomasochistic sex, and primal nightmarish horror, a game that throws the characters into a world where the line between sex and violence had been erased, and the characters must either redefine their version of reality, force their minds to look the other way, or loose their minds altogether.


(Source: www-und.ida.liu.se/~erida399/kult_faq.txt)

Charming! 8O

I'm imagining some unholy fevered hybrid between the films Videodrome, Trainspotting, and Dark City but more depressing and - perhaps even reaching the penultimate level of grim hopeless gloom that permeates every episode of Eastenders

I like the phrase 'force their minds to look the other way' I imagine the PCs' being 'awake' to the situation and seeing how everyone else is too immersed or has escaped into their televisions quiz shows/junk food/reality television/drugs/drink/self-harm/gambling etc. I think you could make quiet a viscious satire on the modern world.


Perhaps if Hal wanted to promote this site he could do it by some sensational 'ban this now!' headlines, all he'd have to do is mail a CD of a Kult session to a tabloid newspaper and point them to the source of the audio. :lol:


Hal's comments about Rolemaster during the World's Largest Dungeon have been intriguing especially his comments about Rolemaster's undead being really deadly.
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#9 Hal

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 11:12 PM

I have never had chance to record a session of Kult. It is really a game that lends itself to campaign length play rather than one offs and I never managed to get a game off the ground near a recorder.

I do remember running a game where Steve (Blease) played a mildly psychotic lesbian priest with an artefact sword which he (she) had to protect. It was the same game where the most cowardly character in the party dived onto a hand grenade to save the others only to discover it was a smoke grenade. And another character, who acquired a severe phobia to blood, managed to get turned into a vampire. It was truely inspired all round. An excellent horror setting and game and well worth a look if you can pick up the first edition. The French seem to have stopped printing it in English in its third edition and the American took out all the blasphmous bits in the second edition, but the first edition is ace. :D

On the Rolemaster front, I played a blind thief for over a year and half (real time) playing every Wednesday and Sunday. Wednesday was from 6pm - midnight and Sunday was from noon until midnight. We got a lot done and even had an in character wedding (not mine). My character started as a High Warrior Monk and stumbled on a sword made for thieves and decided to change career having been made blind by a Rune of Cruel Blinding (basically it removes your eyes and makes it like you never had any). I did eventaully manage to regrow my eyes (healing works very differently in Rolemaster to DnD and high level Healers are basically unkillable.

On the undead front, there are critical hit tables in RM which range in severity from A - E. Most undead deliver a C level Cold Critical just for being near them. This means you have a chance of dying evening if you are just stood nearby, let alone trying to kill them. There is no easy turning and most folks do not play Clerics as they are not really the healing class in the game. There are a few classes which have power over undead but they are very specialist.

All in all it is an excellent game also and well worth a look. I would recommend the 2nd edition (as it is the one I know and played a lot). I have 2 copies coming over from the UK (with any luck). We also have a shed load of house rules for the game to make PCs less weak and easy to kill as character creation can take a little bit of time as there is a huge skills table. If you are making a character over level one you might as well set an entire evening aside, if not longer :D

Anyway, I am heading to bed, enough of this chin wagging with you lot :P

Hal :hal:
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#10 Balgin

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 04:18 AM

You see, I didn't think it would be the type of criticals the undead could deal so much as the fact that they could ignore most of them (stabbed through the heart? So what? It's dead already).
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#11 Sinister-Ornament

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 04:54 AM

Most undead deliver a C level Cold Critical just for being near them. This means you have a chance of dying evening if you are just stood nearby, let alone trying to kill them. There is no easy turning...


I can imagine it now in my mind's eye...

Icy fingers as cold as the grave clawing at the hero’s throat, nearby flowers wilting and candles extinguishing themselves at the undead horror’s mere presence. :twisted:

Fantastic just how undead should be! :D
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#12 Keener

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 09:21 AM

Oh I want to hear some Kult and some Rolemaster.
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#13 riddles

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 04:28 PM

high level Healers are basically unkillable


You're not kidding!

Healers work by taking wounds/diseases etc from others onto themselves, and then fixing themselves.

This means that with 1 list exception (to transfer the damage), their spells are all about fixing themselves, buffing themselves up etc. and even if you manage to knock them out, all their spells are cast automatically whether they are conscious or not...

as the song says, "I get knocked down, then I get up again!"
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#14 Keener

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 04:32 PM

as the song says, "I get knocked down, then I get up again!"

:whip: Bad Riddles no Chumbawamba, now go think about what you've done.
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#15 riddles

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 04:38 PM

:whip: Bad Riddles no Chumbawamba, now go think about what you've done.


Hey, still in slacker mode here! I even still have my Xmas icon...

(Besides which, Timebomb (pt 2) is a far better track)
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