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Lost Mine of Phandelver Session 25


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#1 Hal

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 08:53 PM

File Name: Lost Mine of Phandelver Session 25

File Submitter: Hal

File Submitted: 01 Jul 2015

File Category: Dungeons and Dragons Next (5e)

Genre: Fantasy
Profanity Level: Jolly Sweary Indeed






The party complete the clearing of the mine and discuss how to proceed. With the adventure complete we end with a short review of the scenario and D&D5 as a whole.


Click here to download this file


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#2 Pencil-Monkey

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:11 AM

The party complete the clearing of the mine and discuss how to proceed. With the adventure complete we end with a short review of the scenario and D&D5 as a whole.

 

Congratulations! That scenario didn't even take a full year to finish. ;) (Ten days less than a year, in fact.) :P

You could also consider posting the review/discussion at the end as a separate video file, to encourage people to join that discussion even if they haven't listened to all 25 episodes first.


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#3 Hal

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 10:56 AM

Good idea Monkey - I'll see if I can carve it off but it really isn't much of a review - we might want to get together and have a more serious conversation about that :D

 

Hal :hal:


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#4 Lockhart

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 11:19 AM

we might want to get together and have a more serious conversation about that :D
 
Hal :hal:


Read: find a strong-willed forceful mediator to make Hal and me speak separately instead of jumping over each other's opinions. XP
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#5 Hal

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 11:58 AM

Yeah - pretty what Lockhart said :P

 

Hal :hal:


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#6 PrestoJeff

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 01:06 PM

As a non-player of 5E, I found it easy to follow the system as you were playing it.  It seems that 5E is trying to have simpler mechanics than Pathfinder, and from what I could tell, it seems to have succeeded.

 

I wasn't quite sure what Lockhart was trying to say re: story-telling mechanics built into the system. Do you have any examples of successful story-telling systems?


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#7 Lockhart

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 01:54 PM

As a non-player of 5E, I found it easy to follow the system as you were playing it.  It seems that 5E is trying to have simpler mechanics than Pathfinder, and from what I could tell, it seems to have succeeded.
 
I wasn't quite sure what Lockhart was trying to say re: story-telling mechanics built into the system. Do you have any examples of successful story-telling systems?


FATE and Inspectres come to mind, I'm sure Burning Wheel fits too from what I've heard of it. Basically FATE and Inspectres both look at the game as a shared story instead a series of obstacles made by the GM for players to overcome. They encourage players to think of the story from a macro perspective instead of the purely micro player perspective. In Fate for instance, a major component of the game are FATE points. There passage from player to GMs help to facilitate a story where players have situations they succeed, and also situations that become very difficult. Each character has aspects, some positive, some double-sided, and some flaws. When aspects are invoked against players, they regain the fate points needed to activate the positive aspects. The game outright says that players are therefore encouraged to mention their character flaws and play them up to get the fate points they'll need later. If players consistently avoid playing a characters flaws and avoid story pitfalls, they'll soon find theirselves crippled in options when a challenge comes along.
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#8 PrestoJeff

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:38 PM

Okay, I see what you mean.  Characters in 5E don't really have "flaws", do they?  Or if they do, there's no basis for using them as a system mechanic, is that what you're saying?

 

Would you agree that systems like GURPS or Savage Worlds, which do have character creation mechanics for having flaws, still don't have a basis for using them as a system mechanic for story purposes, but might be "better" than 5E in that area?


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#9 Lockhart

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 08:13 PM

Okay, I see what you mean.  Characters in 5E don't really have "flaws", do they?  Or if they do, there's no basis for using them as a system mechanic, is that what you're saying?
 
Would you agree that systems like GURPS or Savage Worlds, which do have character creation mechanics for having flaws, still don't have a basis for using them as a system mechanic for story purposes, but might be "better" than 5E in that area?


5e does have a flaw system (I think I mention the characterization system of 5e as something I really like and would almost house rule it as a complete alternative for alignment). But the effect on the game is minor and it can easily be ignored.

My understanding of Gurps flaws is that it's "role play it or the GM hits you with books and takes away points". Savage worlds however, from what I recall, is more of a middle grounds between story and system.

I think the overall thrust of my point is that the core system of 5e doesn't necessarily support storytelling. It may inspire a GM or players to have more focus, but that is more of "having a favourite playstyle" as opposed to a inherent feature of the system.

that being said, not sure how much I can go into this purely off a comment from the audio. Not sure if I misspoke there. Happy to start a 5e conversation from a fresh point, here or in a new thread
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#10 Dr Ink'n'Stain

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 06:45 AM

Haven't read the adventure, but from the audio, I think the most memorable bits were the Nothic, which was a completly new creature for me, the halfling kid and perhaps the Banshee. And I suppose these were 10% adventure as written / 90% pure Hal -moments. Overall, it had a strong Designed by Committee feel about it, it seemed to lack any clear direction in what it was trying to accomplish. A tighter focus would probably have helped a lot. And better dungeon design, apparently. I'm not sure the low-level adversaries were the problem, it's more how the monsters are written in the adventure rather than the creatures itself. Although going all Tucker's Kobolds in the introductory adventure might have been tad cruel.

 

As for 5e, for me it hits near the sweet spot between complexity and ease-of-use, in the sense that I could see myself both playing and running a game with it. I like that they chose a bit lighter approach this time, and I especially like that the free-for-all multiclassing is an optional rule now. I never liked it, not thematically nor mechanically; why play a class-and-level game, if the classes are just collection of abilities to cherry-pick the best combos from. I also tend to houserule my games a lot, and it is always easier to add stuff to simpler systems rather than to take stuff away from more complex ones. 5e is not without it's flaws (eg. Things I Do Not Like), but the core system is simple enough and robust enough to fiddle with. Although 5e will most likely be my first and last D&D core system I'm going to own. 

 

But yeah, thanks Hal and the players for a very in-depth intro adventure and analysis, and the different player styles and personalities gave a nice stress test to different aspects of the system. It was not the only review of 5e that I followed, but without the doubt the most entertaining.


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#11 Reverse

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 04:35 PM

My understanding of Gurps flaws is that it's "role play it or the GM hits you with books and takes away points". Savage worlds however, from what I recall, is more of a middle grounds between story and system.

 

Gurps offers you extra character building points for taking flaws, which you're then expected to roleplay. Several of them allow the GM to simply do things (because you have an Enemy, he shows up), while others are expected to roleplay (Depression) with no mechanical penalties except for the GM grumping at you if you don't do it right. As such, it's very easy to break by simply taking a giant pile of flaws that will either never come up or are transparently obvious (taking a Phobia of Vampires in a spy game, taking Enemy: The Campaign Villian You'll Be Fighting Anyway). And because the flaws aren't particularly limited, this is where the old joke comes in about playing a one-armed wheelchair-bound mute alcholic foreign midget with a crippling phobia of worms, because that lets you min-max his powers to the point where he can read minds, use telekinesis and fly, overcoming all his supposed flaws.

 

Savage Worlds falls somewhere between this and FATE. You have a limited number of Hindrances you can take, which allow you some extra build points at the start. Some mechnically penalise you (you're Gutless, -2 to all Fear checks), or are expected to be roleplayed (you're Loyal, you won't leave a man behind). The GM is expected to pay you out in Bennies (reroll tokens), however, when you roleplay your flaw properly.

 

FATE, for those interested, offers no build points for your Aspects, but pays out reroll tokens on the spot as and when these come up. So if you don't play into your flaws, you never get Fate Points to power you up. The GM can also just use them as story establishment. One that's come up plenty of times in my games is "Sucker For A Pretty Face", where the hero gets lured into a dark alley by the beautiful woman, jumped by thugs, and has the Plot Object stolen off him. The GM simply offers up a Fate Point, and says "Because you're a sucker, you never think this could be a trap..." and moves ahead with the story, without bothering to give the player, say, a Perception check to see the thugs, or checks to soak the damage. Of course, the player has the option to reject the Fate Point - "I am a sucker, but with the Object of Doom in my possession, I'm more suspicious than usual..."

 

Fate works the best for it, but is a very story orientated game when laid up against DnD. Savage Worlds is a good option between them.


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#12 Slartibartfast

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 04:00 AM

What I want to know is when is Cockeny's v. Cthulhu coming out?


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#13 Lockhart

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 07:46 AM

What I want to know is when is Cockeny's v. Cthulhu coming out?


Yeah, we played that one-shot ages ago, it never got released for some reason...
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#14 Hal

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 08:09 AM

Yeah - I don't know either - was the audio bad? Let me take a look on the storage drive at home and see if I can dig it out...

 

Hal


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#15 clambake

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 01:36 PM

What is next for you guys?  Need my RPG real play fix!


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#16 Pencil-Monkey

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 03:20 AM

When @Heather decided to cast an AOE spell at the skeletons skellywobbles (as Hal calls 'em), and picked Shatter, it was surprising that @Nick T. Vegan didn't seize the opportunity to suggest that this particular spell could be so much worse, if you exchanged the 'A' in Shatter with an 'I'. :P

@ 52 minutes:
Lockhart: You're making me consider home-brewing a system about hats. :)
Lindsay: Do it! Do it, and I'll run it.
Hal: Ooohhh! Could it be a return to Tatters of the King?
Lindsay: Nope!
Hal: Awww, that was a good adventure, the most viewed adventure on the site-
Lindsay: Bye! :rolleyes:

@ 58 minutes:
Hal: I suggest a game of Paranoia that Nick runs, and we all play.
Lockhart: Night Vale the RPG!

You could actually combine those two ideas, and have Nick run the Paranoia scenario Alice Through the Mirrorshades, feat. the Vulture Warriors of Dimension X (!), and let Lindsay play as the cyberpunk equivalent of the Mad Hatter. :) Just read this glowing review of the scenario from RPG.net:

A strong argument could be made that the Vulture Warriors trilogy represents the nadir of 2nd ed. Paranoia adventures. A real stinker.


WEG12017_180.jpeg


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#17 thranduul

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 05:50 PM

Loving it guys!  I just finished the podcast for these today and now I'm feeling very empty--especially since @Thing wasn't able to make it to GenCon to tip a pint or 2 or 9.  :)

What is the next RPG for you all?  I just started the (what I thought as the) next session of Shattered Star only it seems I missed a few episodes.  Sorry if I don't "comment" on the forums that much--I listen to rpgmp3 EVERY night on my iPod; I just don't watch the video since I listen (audio only) on long car rides or at night before going to sleep.  That being said, I've been a huge huge fan for years and hope you keep it up.  Don't let the (artificially) low number of comments make you think only a few people care about your craft.

#justsayin #shoutOutToMyHomies


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#18 Thing

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 07:57 AM

Looks like we are back to Shattered Star, with our new band of "heros" off to the mayhem.


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#19 Pencil-Monkey

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 06:55 AM

What is the next RPG for you all?

What is next for you guys? Need my RPG real play fix!

Looks like we are back to Shattered Star, with our new band of "heros" off to the mayhem.


Hey @thranduul, @clambake and whoever else is impatiently waiting on more Pathfinder - looks like it might be coming soon! (Or at least a day sooner than it was yesterday.) ;)

What I want to know is when is Cockeny's v. Cthulhu coming out?


9341921018_b1c3297941.jpg
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#20 Slartibartfast

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 12:47 AM

What is the rhyming slang for Azathoth?


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