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#1 Hal

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 06:26 AM

Just got into work and this popped up on one of my feeds and I thought it might be a good springboard for a conversation - also I don't get to post in the Industry News section very often as The Bot does that most of the time :P

 

Gen Con Threatens to Move Convention Over Religious Freedom Bill

 

I have to say from my point of view, more power to Gen Con for using their influence for the benefit of every gamer.

 

Hal :hal:


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#2 BigJackBrass

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:37 AM

It's not a "religious freedom" bill, of course, merely a bigot's charter to allow discrimination at will. As GenCon aren't alone in their concerns perhaps the cumulative impact will make a difference, but it's saddening that people are forced to resort to financial arguments against failures to act like decent human beings. Money always seems to be the only language sure to be understood.
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#3 ThistledownJohn

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:48 AM

Regardless of a person's inclination towards the situation, it seems to me that the first reasonable thing to do is to read the bill...

 

http://iga.in.gov/le...cument-92bab197


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#4 Hal

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:02 AM

Is that a good and logical place to start...

 

How about we post the digest of the bill here...

 

 

 

Religious freedom restoration. Prohibits a governmental entity from substantially burdening a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability, unless the governmental entity can demonstrate that the burden: (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering the compelling governmental interest. Provides a procedure for remedying a violation. Specifies that the religious freedom law applies to the implementation or application of a law regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity or official is a party to a proceeding implementing or applying the law. Prohibits an applicant, employee, or former employee from pursuing certain causes of action against a private employer.

 

Hal :hal:


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#5 BigJackBrass

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:08 AM

Incidentally, Hal, have you ever wondered why some forums don't allow discussion of religion or politics? ;)
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#6 ThistledownJohn

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:30 AM

Incidentally, Hal, have you ever wondered why some forums don't allow discussion of religion or politics? ;)

 

LOL!  I hope we don't find out!  :O


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#7 Hal

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:05 AM

I thought about it as I was typing but then I figured it might be interesting to see what happened - and it might be nice to get some spirited chat going on round here ;)

 

Hal :hal:


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#8 Pencil-Monkey

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:55 AM

Incidentally, Hal, have you ever wondered why some forums don't allow discussion of religion or politics? ;)

 

Does that mean we're not allowed to argue about whether Eilistraee or Lolth is the hottest Drow deity? :( Or whether Chiktikka Fastpaws is, in fact, the fastest thing alive?


 


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#9 Hal

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 08:05 AM

No Monkey - you go right ahead and create those forums and we will have a long discussion about each :)

 

Hal :hal:


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#10 riddles

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:23 AM

OK, it's Thursday afternoon, it's hot, and I'm still hung over (after 3 & 1/2 pints!! My Drinking-fu is weak today), but I look at the digest of the bill, and go "huh?"

 

So, what does it mean, for the average roleplayer in the streets? :)


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#11 Lockhart

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:10 PM

OK, it's Thursday afternoon, it's hot, and I'm still hung over (after 3 & 1/2 pints!! My Drinking-fu is weak today), but I look at the digest of the bill, and go "huh?"
 
So, what does it mean, for the average roleplayer in the streets? :)


I think there are two intentions to the bill, both equally valid interpretations, depending on the stance.

Supporters: less government involvement when it comes to practicing religion.

Opponents: the government will not interfere on behalf of discrimination against others for "religious" reasons. IE, a store not serving certain demographic for religious reasons, the would be customer can't appeal to government.

The issue is the right of one's own property/business and religion and the right to standard service without discrimination. And which is more important.

My understanding at least.
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#12 Hal

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:34 PM

I like the Lockhart summary - this seems to cover it pretty much :)

 

So GenCon is upset that it bring thousands of people to the state and those people run the risk of being discriminated against with no recourse which I guess would result in a bad view of their GenCon experience...

 

Hal :hal:


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#13 BigJackBrass

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:40 PM

Not to mention the whole human rights argument.


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#14 Lockhart

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:20 PM

Overall it is sensible for Gen Con (and any other business without a religious identity/agenda) to be against this bill because anything that upsets/risks customer satisfaction and repetition of business is kinda a bad thing. While there is opportunity for all inclusive businesses in a non-inclusive environment, it's also just as likely that the discriminated will simply relocate to a better environment and that competitive advantage would be lost.
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#15 Texan

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 11:36 PM

The American constitution protect one's right to be a religious bigot.  Gender identity and sexual orientation is not protected by the constitution the way religious beliefs are.  You might not like it, or consider it moral, but that is the way it is.  The solution would be to change the constitution.  Gen Con certainly has the right to have their convention where ever they want, though they have a contract running through 2020.


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#16 BigJackBrass

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 01:41 AM

More organisations are expressing their concerns: http://edition.cnn.c...ghts/index.html

"Already, the gamer convention Gen Con and the Disciples of Christ church group had threatened to pull their conventions out of Indianapolis. Tech giant Salesforce said it would halt its plans to expand in the state, too."
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#17 Pencil-Monkey

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:05 AM

The American constitution protect one's right to be a religious bigot.  Gender identity and sexual orientation is not protected by the constitution the way religious beliefs are.  You might not like it, or consider it moral, but that is the way it is.  The solution would be to change the constitution.  Gen Con certainly has the right to have their convention where ever they want, though they have a contract running through 2020.


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Hal: More power to Gen Con for supporting all gamers and using their influence accordingly...

Erik: Let it come to Las Vegas!

Hal: Hey Houston needs a big gaming con I feel :)

 

You could try getting RPGMP3-Con started, Hal. :) That idea has certainly been percolating for years, now.


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#18 Hal

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 09:52 AM

I actually own the web address for BIGcon.org :P

 

What a better name for a con in Texas? :)

 

Hal :hal:


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#19 Pencil-Monkey

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 10:04 AM

I actually own the web address for BIGcon.org :P
 
What a better name for a con in Texas? :)


You know, if you replaced the 'n' with a 'ck', and added either a 'y' or 'asm' at the end of that, you'd probably increase the number of site hits by a factor of literally trillions. ;)
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#20 ThistledownJohn

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 01:02 PM

There so much I'd like to say here...but my powers of self-restraint are holding!  :D


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