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8 Reasons D&D 5th Edition is Better Than Pathfinder


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#21 Telemergion

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 01:25 PM

/cracks knuckles

 

So, I may have touched on some of this in my blog but I'm being incredibly lazy and can't be bothered to go check what I wrote that night. Instead I'm going to react IN REAL TIME as I read through this article and post my comments on either Pathfinder, 5th Edition, or the articles points because it amuses me and taking pot shots at things other people wrote ages before I got there is why Hume is one of my favourite philosophers.

Spoiler

(Conclusion, which usually isn't labelled but I'm showing him how it's done)

This man needs to go back to school and learn how to write an opinion piece. Even if you're doing a list format like he is you have to know how to convey your message clearly. I am actually fairly sure he wasn't trying to prove 5E was "better" to the degree that I and others have derided him for. I think that was a poorly chosen title. Unfortunately that is the first thing anyone sees, especially when it's in giant font and is the name by which your article will be searched out. He didn't adequately correct that title in the text portion either. His subject was vague and his conclusion was forgotten. If his intention was to create a piece that attempted to prove 5E was better then this was an abject failure. If he sought to simply explain what he liked about 5E then it was from such a restricted viewpoint that it neglected all others than his own as being viable, which is acceptable but does a disservice to this hobby which is best when it is shared with others. If his intention was to make a headline and talking point to generate website traffic then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! He still needs to go back to writing school, though. I mean, presumably he got paid to do this and that's the real tragedy here.


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#22 Telemergion

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 01:27 PM

Me being "incredibly lazy" apparently equates to 2500 words and 2 hours of writing.

 

I need lunch. I am starving.


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#23 Hal

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 03:05 PM

Nice work :) I do that sometimes and then I look back and wonder why I can never get any of my adventure and world building ideas on paper :D

 

Hal :hal:


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#24 Sênstaku

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 07:20 PM

I detailed this in response to Telemergion's blog, so I may as well put it here too;

 

The overall split that I've encountered has been people either really love 5th edition, or really hate 5th edition and prefer either earlier editions or Pathfinder. The reason for these opinions, however, seems to be the same reason; People who love 5th edition, love it because it's less complex than previous iterations. People who hate it, hate it because it's less complex than previous iterations.

 

Having delved into the mechanics and options and bits of the system, I can safely say that while it is less complex than previous iterations, it is no less deep. They've taken out the fluff and padding of previous editions and left a lean and variable system. There are enough rules to keep it from falling into chaos, and enough freedom to roleplay the way you want. No longer do you have to take extra feats just to play a samurai style character if that's what you want; Just call your longsword a katana and go.

The biggest complaint I ever had for Pathfinder (And, by extension, 3.5 D&D) was that I - an experienced player - constantly got lost in the options between Feats, class combinations, and prestige classes. I can only imagine what it was like for a person who was just starting out.

 

I still enjoy Pathfinder and 3.5 for the silly things you can do, but I have to say that 5th edition is certainly gearing up to be my new favorite edition.


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#25 Pencil-Monkey

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 03:48 AM


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#26 Telemergion

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 08:19 AM

I think Setstaku and I are pretty much on the same page.

 

And I am not sure if I am happy or sad that I can no longer remember how to calculate THAC0, but I think Gandalf just missed.


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#27 Sênstaku

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 10:52 AM

Yes, Gandalf missed by 1.

I think.

 

Potentially.


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#28 BigJackBrass

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 11:08 AM

People who love 5th edition, love it because it's less complex than previous iterations. People who hate it, hate it because it's less complex than previous iterations.

For a long time I didn't play D&D at all, so the introduction of third edition (and indeed most of second edition AD&D, which is what put me off the game for years) passed me by. When I did get around to playing it no longer felt much like the game I remembered. There are all sorts of reasons, but certainly a big problem was the fact that it was far more complicated than it used to be for very little gain. Fifth edition is certainly an improvement on that (for now: I fully expect it to be buried under new rules, classes etc in short order), yet it is still a much more complicated game than D&D used to be, for all that it's more logical and better presented. I like fifth and I've been in a campaign since August, but certainly wouldn't pick it in preference to half a dozen alternatives.

The key problem for me remains rooted in the very early years: D&D was a highly abstract system, born out of wargames where that was perfectly normal, which crashed head-on into people who thought it should be more realistic. The attempts to reconcile concepts such as Armour Class with "common sense," let alone real-world physics, raised additional issues, calling for further rules. Before you know it there were any number of supplements, articles and house rules and it was full steam ahead towards AD&D. Instead of embracing the abstract, AD&D added details and exceptions without entirely removing those underlying concepts.

The Old School Renaissance has resulted in (far too many, if we're honest) games that are pretty much rewritten versions of D&D as it started life, with a few extras from here and there. One reason why there are so many people who get hugely enthusiastic about OSR systems is, I suspect, because they're finally encountering the original abstract engine of D&D but in a much more accessible, coherent presentation. Once third edition was out in the wild there was no way that subsequent editions could put that genie back in the bottle because too many people like it, so fifth will always be a compromise. It's a good try, though, better than I hoped for; and for my tastes vastly superior to Pathfinder, which just doesn't click for me personally.
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#29 BigJackBrass

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 04:28 AM

David Ewalt has published an interview with Nathan Stewart of WotC, discussing the fifth edition launch and plans for the game: http://www.forbes.co...-fifth-edition/
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#30 Telemergion

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 11:18 AM

Huh. Reading through that article I really want to believe him because it sounds like this guy at least, assuming he can talk for Wizards, gets it. Not publishing books for books sake, updating rules and features to fit with releases of storylines, consistent storylines released, and hopes for a big, badass videogame? Those are all things I want too.


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#31 Lucky_Strike

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 12:31 PM

That was a good interview. My only disappointment is the heavy focus on Forgotten Realms.

I understand they want to build that brand but I'm not particularly invested in it. I'd rather see storylines celebrating the multiple created worlds. Mystara is the one I'm attached to but I'm sure fans of all the other settings would like to have some attention. I can see how competing storylines at two a year would bust their brand building focus.
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#32 Sênstaku

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 02:53 PM

To be fair, Forgotten Realms is the most popular of the worlds, with the most selling merchandise - Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Waterdeep, Neverwinter, the Legend of Drizzt, the Cleric Quintet, etc. etc.

Even of the two D&D MMORPGs, the one set in Forgotten Realms is more popular than the one set in Eberron. From a business perspective, it makes sense to build up Forgotten Realms first.

 


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#33 Telemergion

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 05:10 PM

To be fair, Forgotten Realms is the most popular of the worlds, with the most selling merchandise - Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Waterdeep, Neverwinter, the Legend of Drizzt, the Cleric Quintet, etc. etc.

Even of the two D&D MMORPGs, the one set in Forgotten Realms is more popular than the one set in Eberron. From a business perspective, it makes sense to build up Forgotten Realms first.

Agreed. And I think it's of merit to note that it's also one of the more malleable published settings. You really can do whatever you want with it because there are enough countries and cities of import that will fit the theme of your game and there are scores of baddies who you can use to accomplish whatever nefarious goals you desire. Things get more complicated in Eberron, Dragonlance, and when was the last time they released a Greyhawk book? While the realms aren't my favourite setting their only real flaws are being a little overdone and generic in places. And Drizzt.


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#34 Pencil-Monkey

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:51 AM

I am not sure if I am happy or sad that I can no longer remember how to calculate THAC0, but I think Gandalf just missed.



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#35 thranduul

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 10:06 PM

I like lethal. At least in 5e making a character takes minutes and not days like in Rolemaster :P

 

Hal :hal:

You should check out DCC RPG (Dungeon Crawl Classics)!  Definitely brings back that 1E/2E D&D feel with lethal meat-grinder goodness. :)


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