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#41 Salubrai

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 06:06 AM

I thought n00b more implied a newbie who believed themselves to be the new "Master of the Game", so to speak and acted like a total jerk - even more offensive than an old-timer who thinks themselves something special, because they don't even know how to powergame within the rules. :)

Still, I'm not quite sure how THAC0 weeds out n00bs. It only weeds out people who don't like rules that should be sensible, not seem to make less sense every time you have it explained. Admittedly, I know thac0 pretty well - but I don't know many new players who won't say "Why is this so unnecessarily complicated when everything else is straightforward?" I think that's the big issue with THAC0
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#42 Sinister-Ornament

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 01:30 PM

I think, as with most roleplaying rules, THACo is easy to learn if you talk it through with someone, rather than trying to learn it 'dry' from a book.


I remeber playing a game where the DM announced initiative out loud, counting down until everyone including monsters had completed thier action.

It was totally different from the way I seen DMs do it before, and it totally threw me. But after a while I realised it not only speeded up combat it freeded up the DM. Allowing to concentrate on plots, silly voices, and having fun.



I'm really surprised that so many of you are describing THACo as complex or difficult 8O .

I hope you will indulge me, as I atempt to explain it again.


THACo works if the new player knows the following;


1. The A/C scale, minus being very good, 10 being no armour.

2. What THACo stands for

3. How to draw a THACo bar (see my post above about this)

4. That you have to consult the bar when you attack, looking at the number below your enemy's A/C, and then rolling the number or over on a D20 to hit.

5. THACo starts at 20 at 1st level and as you advance your THACo improves by going down.


I think the concept of 'roleplaying' itself takes more time to explain to a new person than THACo.

I remember using THACo before 2nd edition came out. I remember some first edition modules using it. (Treaure Hunt, and Ravenloft II both spring to mind) this leads me to assume that the rules for using THACo first appeared in the 1st edition AD&D book Unearthed Arcana (A book I've never seen).

Am I correct in this assumption?






Time Enough for Love


I've read that Heinlein book and I snigger at the memory of it.
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#43 Lindsay

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 01:48 PM

Now i feel Really stupid!!
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#44 Sinister-Ornament

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 01:53 PM

Does that mean I've explained it so well that it now appears obvious?


Hope so - I'm trying to help!
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#45 Thing

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 01:54 PM

Now i feel Really stupid!!

Don't feel that way. Thac0 is one of those concepts that is very easy to understand, once you understand it. I run into those all the time in computers and it can be hard to remember what it looks like with a fresh perspective to explain to people.

And switching rules systems always messes people up, especially if you have been playing a lot of sessions under one system and then switch.
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#46 Lindsay

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 01:55 PM

Not really, more like people think its very easy and it confused me, so i must be super thick!!
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#47 Sinister-Ornament

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 02:18 PM

Do NOT denigrate yourself.

You are not stupid.
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#48 Thing

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 02:27 PM

Yes, never denigrate yourself,
Defenestrate those that make you feel stupid instead!
(* I'm using my big words today ! *)
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#49 Sinister-Ornament

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 02:43 PM

I wasn't intentionally using a big word.

Anyway females have a larger vocabulary than men, I suspect with Lindsay being at University she knows far more words than me.


I used to get depressed myself when I failed to understand something.

Calling yourself stupid, isn't going to help. When I notice people doing this, it get me annoyed.


http://www.reference...owse/wiki/THAC0
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#50 Thing

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 02:51 PM

I wasn't intentionally using a big word.

Nope, I was. Defenestrates only purpose is to be a big word for and I try and use it where I can.

I used to get depressed myself when I failed to understand something.

Calling yourself stupid, isn't going to help. When I notice people doing this, it get me annoyed.


I used to get depressed over not understanding things, and especially when I realized how much I did'nt know. Computers helped me to understand that there is so much out there that no one person can know it all.

I am brill with Science, Math and a few other subjects, but there are all sorts of social skills I will never have and many skills, like matching colours and such that I am lousy at, and I am envious of those that do have such skills.
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#51 Lindsay

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 03:02 PM

And now ive anoyyed you, im doing well today :D
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#52 mchvlichldprdgy

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 03:04 PM

I disagree. I hate mathematics; yet I love science, and logic. :P


Science, logic and math aren't as seperate as you seem to think. Game Threory and especially the balance of game mechanics is mathematical.

My love of astronomy and strange ability to do the mathematics involved therein clash illogically with my dislike of pure mathematics... but it's just me. :D


I know what you mean. Could it perhaps have something to do with the mathematics being applied rather than unapplied. The old idiom "why will we ever need this?" I hated any math that I couldn't think of an immediate practical use. I've recently become interested in ballistics (something too cool to teach in school) and it is awesome.

Seriously though, I have to go back and relearn any algebra stuff if I have to use it because I've forgotten all the formerly useless junk.
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#53 Thing

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 03:14 PM

I know what you mean. Could it perhaps have something to do with the mathematics being applied rather than unapplied.

I think you have the gist of it there. Discrete mathematics is a bizzare and arcane field, especially at the high levels.

When you look at it, Mtg is pure math, and I've met many a kid that is absolutely phenomenal at it, yet they couldn't do the descrete math because they have no interest in it.
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#54 Sinister-Ornament

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 03:22 PM

Lindsay - you make it sound like you have a daily target!

:lol:

Sort of an anti-good deed thing.



1. Stopped old lady crossing the road.
2. Hindered a lost man by providing wrong directions.
3. Annoyed someone on the internet.
4. Tormented Friends

:lol: :lol:
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#55 Thing

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 03:28 PM

Lindsay - you make it sound like you have a daily target!


Sort of an anti-good deed thing.


Reminds me of a story I worked on about a guardian demon. If the goody goods can have guardian angels to keep them from harm and make sure they don't stray, why not the other side.
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#56 Salubrai

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 05:53 PM

Defenestrate is one of those big words that everyone already seems to know, and it's hard to joke even at silly folks using.
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#57 Thing

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 06:02 PM

Defenestrate is one of those big words that everyone already seems to know, and it's hard to joke even at silly folks using.


Yeah, I really like WebMavens' take on it.

Although I don't recall them covering Defenestration of Prague in school. Then again if it wasn't US or state history there is a half chance they didn't cover it.
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#58 Salubrai

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 07:51 PM

Defenestrate is one of those big words that everyone already seems to know, and it's hard to joke even at silly folks using.


Yeah, I really like WebMavens' take on it.

Although I don't recall them covering Defenestration of Prague in school. Then again if it wasn't US or state history there is a half chance they didn't cover it.


Perhaps that was moreso because it was a slightly unimportant piece of history?
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#59 Thing

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 08:02 PM

Perhaps that was moreso because it was a slightly unimportant piece of history?

Perhaps, although with the intricate web of history, it is hard to call any event unimportant.
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#60 mchvlichldprdgy

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 08:04 PM

Unimportant but amusing. They should teach it in schools. More people may be interested in history if they knew the wacky stuff that happened.
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