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DnD5e Anyone?


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#1 Hal

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:23 AM

Just read this...

I was hoping I might be excited about it but it seems that DnD is dead to me after 4e. The books look good but they basically turned it into a minis and card game with some MMO elements and basically flipped the finger at all the tradition and history.

New York Time Article about DnD5e

I think it is good that they want to involved their community but I would suggest that their community has now changed so much since the old days that they don't give a damn any more.

With Pathfinder actually being what DnD should have been and them having a nice balance with new book releases that do not escalate the power level into the realms of the stupid rather than the endless run of splat books - I think Wizards is going to have a hard time reviving DnD with a 5th Edition.

What do you guys think?

Hal :hal:
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#2 Thing

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:48 AM

I agree with you Hal.
the feel of the game with 4E changed a lot and I think a lot of the old school fans fled to pathfinder and a few other systems. Its going to be a hard slog up hill to try and get those people back. Plus there are probably some current players that either started with 4E and like it so they could risk loosing those players if they switch again.
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#3 Lockhart

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:04 AM

I am currently unenthused.

I came into D&D fairly late into the age of 3.5, so it wasn't too much later that 4e came bursting onto the scene. I tried it, I thought it was a new and unique system, but I continued with 3.5.

The main reason for this was that I was having so much fun with 3.5, there was so much material to explore, modules to run and settings to immerse in. The thought of which was better didnt really occur to me. It was more about how I was having fun with my current toy, and that fun was no where near ending. The new toy would be there if I ran out of stuff to do with 3.5, but that never really happened. With pathfinder continuing the legacy of 3.5, I'm once again without a compelling reason to want to switch to 5e. I'll probably give it a try when the day comes, but I'm a hard sell at this point. Paizo has treated me really good, they've given me a really fun game to play, and there is no reason to abandon that.

There is also the fact that this is all so soon. Pathfinder, their main competition, is only on their 3rd year. They've continued to Excel with fun, flavourful and unique products, they're only getting stronger. If Wotc had given a couple years to let pathfinder lose some ateam and people get bored of it, or better yet wait until pathfinder 2.0 this might be more successful. Then again, maybe they are worried Paizo has the secret ingrediant for only getting stronger, and best to weaken Paizo's market share ASAP.

In any event, if for no reason other than Monte's involvement with WotC, I will be keeping an eye on this with an open mind, waiting to be impressed., and I'll give it a try, but they'd have to make an unexpectedly perfect product to convert me.
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#4 MelkiorWhiteblade

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:33 AM

Thanks for sharing Hal, I wouldn't have even known since I don't watch the D&D website much since 4e. I'll probably have more to comment once I read the New York Times article and official announcement.

But I do have this to say...it's not original to involve their fan base in creation. Look at the Pathfinder open beta...
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#5 Hal

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:43 AM

I agree with that... Pathfinder did a great job providing their game free in both Alpha and Beta.

WotC is unlikely to do that I doubt...

Also from comments I have read it looks like things might be heading in a "modular" direction. So I am thinking GURPs model.

Core rules then additional rules in splat books for things like martial arts etc...

I have applied for the open playtest and will see how that goes. Also dropped a couple of emails out there to see if I could get some of the contributor groups involved in the process, if they were interested. :)

It will be released and then I will get a copy and then I will moan that it is not as good as earlier editions (can't be worse the 4 surely) and then I will not have anyone to blame but myself for not trying to throw opinions and ideas in.

I have nostalgia for DnD but I am not sure that it is the same game it used to be. It has too much corporate shine and very little actual content at the moment. More about releases to earn money that actually providing to the player community.

That said - the community they are talking to is the community the currently plays 4e. So unless there is a mass revolt by the "old guard" to get involved and take the system back it is just going to be more of the same...

Hal :hal:
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#6 forgedchaos

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:09 PM

I don't know about the next variant of D&D, heck I really haven't gamed since 2nd ed, but I'll probably buy the core books just because like i did 3rd and 4th. (working on getting the pathfinder core now.). I do have to say thought the old schooler in me doesn't like the new D&D too much but I do have to admit that WoTC has worked to bring it back to a younger generation but at a cost. My personal opinion is that I really like what pazio has done thought. Not just the rule set but I've looked at the SRD website and couldn't believe it. Basically they have given use the game there for free. If I wanted to go from the Biginner box that I was blessed with for christmas to the main game It's all right there for me without paying a thing and that's why I want to support them. I have to say good luck to WoTC with there endeavor but I kinda hope that someway pazio could get the licence for D&D and keep the true spirit of it alive.
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#7 thad

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:18 PM

There's also an article about this, with intention and so on, over on The Escapist:

Speak Your Mind in the Next Version of Dungeons & Dragons
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#8 ShootHere

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:28 PM

I personally find 4e to be lacking in depth altogether.

The homogeny of the classes lends itself to "everyone can play the way they want" but also characters not feeling very unique.
It used to *SUCK* having to HAVE a healer in the party but on the other hand it made every member of the party feel more important.

One thing I will say: 4e is AMAZING to introduce new players and it is also up to the group to make the actual game amazing.

I guess we will wait and see what WotC does with it... I might not pick it up again as I lean more towards freeform RP (less rules, more RP) but D&D is good for those nights of casual dungeon crawling.
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#9 Guest__*

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:47 PM

I hope they do a good job. Just can't shake the image of people going "Yeah, it's quite a good Pathfinder copy, but I think I'll just stick with the original (!) Pathfinder if that's ok".

I can totally understand people wanting a copy of the core rules though. I own a few editions of Hero Sytem myself! :)
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#10 Daniel

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

Like Hal, D&D has been dead to me since 4e. While I don't expect 5e to be a return to traditional D&D play-style I doubt I'm going to be playing it any time soon. The new-ish edition of Savage Worlds has my heart held too strong.

Still, 4e did cause an influx of folks visiting the site, so maybe 5e will repeat that. :)
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#11 eformo

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 03:51 PM

I was hoping I might be excited about it but it seems that DnD is dead to me after 4e. The books look good but they basically turned it into a minis and card game with some MMO elements and basically flipped the finger at all the tradition and history.


QFT

I won't be buying 5th edition, for at least a year or two after it comes out, and only then if a lot of people have really good things to say about it (and I've read the .pdf and liked it).
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#12 lordof1

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 04:25 PM

The general feeling on the thread seems to mirror my own response to the news, which can be summed up (probably annoyingly) with 'meh'.

D&D seems a very long way now from the many happy hours I wasted my adolescence on, and although like Hal I feel a certain nostalgia for it, the prospect of yet another ruleset after 4E fills me with nothing but apathy. 4E was such a break from the old game that even if they turn it back into something it used to be, I think I'd rather just still with my old rulebooks, or with Pathfinder.

It's a shame, and maybe they're not trying to appeal to us - but then, the hobby is not a big one any more, and so if not us, then who exactly is going to get excited by this announcement? It seems that people who like 4E won't be pleased about a change in direction, and people who don't have moved on to other games. I really can't imagine what a new edition of D&D could do to get either camp interested at the moment.
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#13 dualshock71

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:05 PM

I was kind of surprised to hear that they're doing 5e already. It seems like only yesterday...

In any case, I have to mirror the general sentiment of the thread here. By this point, D&D isn't D&D anymore, and while their attempts to ask the fanbase what they want out of the game are nice, by this point we've already got Pathfinder, which, as has been stated below, is pretty much what we wanted. I think it's even got the potential to end D&D myself, but that might be just me.
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#14 Vaeron

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:20 PM

The problem is, even if 5e is SuperMegaFantastic, WOTC cannot be trusted to not throw it out just 2 years later. 3e lasted only 3 years. 3.5 another 5. 4e lasted only 2, then 4e Essentials have only been around for 1 year.

Who is willing to invest their hard-earned money into a Wizards RPG at this point? It would be insane.

Will this get Pathfinder folks to take a second look (which is what Essentials was intended to accomplish)? Or will they look at the rapid edition change and say "Phew! Thank goodness I dodged that bullet."
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#15 Lockhart

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:55 PM

The problem is, even if 5e is SuperMegaFantastic, WOTC cannot be trusted to not throw it out just 2 years later. 3e lasted only 3 years. 3.5 another 5. 4e lasted only 2, then 4e Essentials have only been around for 1 year.


This is a huge thing. WotC has really lost all image as anything but a money grubbing company at this point. When Paizo talks about reworking mechanics, they do it from a point of view of 'We've been receiving alot of questions & comments on this, so let's experiment and see if we can find something better'. Their blog articles are interesting alternative rules. If Paizo were to come out with Pathfinder 2.0, I'd believe it would be in an attempt to further streamline the rules and they'd only do it if they truly felt they had an improvement to the system and not to just get more money.

Not to mention Pathfinder does give away their game for free really, all of it. This is a huge trust booster. It kinda says they're more interested in people playing a fun game and spreading the hobby to everyone, which in turn makes you want to support these guys.

It's just, like Vaeron says. Even if 5e is amazing, WotC as a company with their policies and practices are not. I'm still upset how WotC sabotaged their 3.5 sales in order to push 4e when it came out. Continuing to publish 3.5 while doing 4e, and maybe working on a hybrid version, could've been something good for WotC. Or at least better than killing off the popular older product to force people to turn to the newer product.
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#16 Vaeron

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:05 PM

Continuing to publish 3.5 while doing 4e, and maybe working on a hybrid version, could've been something good for WotC. Or at least better than killing off the popular older product to force people to turn to the newer product.


I agree - a departure as big as 4e from baseline D&D should probably have been run as a concurrent experiment product rather than a replacement. Much like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3e - which for all its pluses/faults is completely divergent from 1e/2e/and even the more current 40k rpg lines, which have ignored 3e and continued with a meatier version of 2e. Experimentation is good for a game company - but with an established brand it's best to make an alternative product and call it something different, if only to avoid burning bridges in the same way WFRP 3e and D&D 4e did.

This new, modular approach doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in at all.
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#17 Annatar

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:26 PM

I have to admit that I am at least a little bit intrigued. Firstly, because it confirmed my suspicions that 4E underperformed under the pressure of the big anvil 'Pathfinder' and the little hammer 'the OSR'. Secondly, because of certain wordings in the announcement that give a flimmer of hope that WotC might have learned something. Yes, I know, hope dies last. On the other hand, I am not really concerned that much about how the 5E will turn out, as I have moved, not away from D&D, but from its current incarnation in 2010 or so.
At the end of the 3E era, I was really burned out on that edition, and that is the reason I never found the path (hehe) to Pathfinder. Pathfinder is too much like 3E to hold any appeal to me, although I appreciate what I see about Paizo from afar. There were some valid complaints about the monstrosity 3E had become at the end of its life cycle (interestingly, Pathfinder does not seem to make the same mistakes) and at first I was enthusiastic about 4E. Behold my terror when I saw the finished product! That was no role-playing game, but a tabletop miniatures war game (and in that capacity it performs quite well, I have to admit - but that's not what I want to play when playing D&D). But something good has come out of all this kerfuffle: First, I looked around for other RPGs and found some quite interesting, like rediscovering DSA, which is *the* native German RPG. And rediscovering the old editions of D&D. One of my groups has now settled on playing Basic Mentzer D&D (BECMI), which is possibly both the most complete and most easy D&D, and we have enormous fun with it. I think that I hadn't that much fun playing D&D since my AD&D Planescape campaign in the 90's. So, all in all, let 5E come, but don't count on me falling in its trap, like it happened with 4E.
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#18 Annatar

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:28 PM

Oh, did I never post anything before? Seems I just delurked. Oops. :wink:
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#19 Vaeron

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:03 AM

Oh, did I never post anything before? Seems I just delurked. Oops. :wink:


Well, welcome!

My little local group is talking about going back to 2e ourselves, which is the nice thing about older D&D editions - there's one to suit most any taste. We're still playing 4e at the moment, but only one of us really wants to. He loves the grid (and all the rules that go with it), and the rest of us feel confined by it. But we've talked about going back even to the Basic set like you guys as well, and have in the meantime opted to just experiment with as many different systems as we are willing to run for each other. From which, perchance, may rise a horrific system hybrid!

There really is so much to choose from that investing even more money in 5e, which with it's modular design will probably have even MORE splatbook-fever than 4e, seems unnecessary.
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#20 Ieqo

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:14 AM

I'm in the camp of most everyone here in that the new edition of D&D affects my gaming about as much as the price of beachfront real estate in Antarctica.

Yes it does seem like WotC is making efforts to reverse their mistake, and perhaps among the newer converts to the hobby they may enjoy some success. I wish them well. But pretty much veryone of my vintage is over it.
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