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Bring this campaign back!


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#1 Lothar

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:07 PM

This was my favorite on rpgmp3! From pimping to 3rd nipples... rofl ... some extremely cool stuff has happened and you guys are still getting started :) For those of you with an unmet-warhammer appetite, I've found found another recorded warhammer campaign here: http://warhammer-ene...in.blogspot.com though it is not nearly as funny as this one.

My days of putting cabinets together are much longer without this!
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#2 Keener

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:21 PM

Now sir a little bit of please never hurt anyone. :D Oh and this was a good game but I think it was frustrating the players a bit. :D
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#3 ZachDood77

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 08:51 PM

I believe the general consensus among the texans was that they were tired of the general atmosphere of hopelessness in the setting among other things. But I'm sure that when they decide they're ready to return to it they will. Patience grasshopper...
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#4 CrazyMLC

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 09:29 PM

I think Hal could have done them a little favor and given them some more money to start off with, the campaign so far seems a little unforgiving. I like how they deal under pressure though, and to be honest it is a little funny when outrageous things happen, like Ned getting mutated. (I like how he abused it too!)
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#5 ZachDood77

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 10:30 PM

I kinda think the whole point of Warhammer is that it is unforgiving though...
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#6 Balgin

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 08:46 AM

I believe the general consensus among the texans was that they were tired of the general atmosphere of hopelessness in the setting among other things. But I'm sure that when they decide they're ready to return to it they will. Patience grasshopper...


Look, they're the bunch of folk who played like idiots and tried to treat it like a diffferent setting (then got upset because it wasn't). I mean David running around shouting one word of his question at a time and just asking to be killed by the guardfs was silly. It was funny but the Warhammer World isn't a silly world. It's all about the gritty realism. There's no water elemental powered speed boat/hovercraft crap going on here :P.

That bit in Pfeifeldorf (which isn't on any of the maps nor even in the Guide to thbe Emprie, which does include a Pfeildorf somewhere near the Reikwald forest and southeast of Altdorf) was just really badly written. No GM should be forced to endure a section of adventure so linear and restrictive as that.

I really would like to see this campaign make a comeback 'though.
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#7 Murine_Archmage

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 10:02 AM

Look, they're the bunch of folk who played like idiots and tried to treat it like a different setting (then got upset because it wasn't). I mean David running around shouting one word of his question at a time and just asking to be killed by the guards was silly. It was funny but the Warhammer World isn't a silly world. It's all about the gritty realism.


And that, gentle-listeners, was indeed the problem. If I may?

1) Playing like idiots. Well, do forgive us for trying to have a bit of fun. Last I checked, none of us were students of theatre or drama (if I'm mistaken, feel free to correct me). Rather, I seem to have this bizarre notion in my head that we're a bunch of friends gathering together to take a break from the drudgery and/or boredom of our normal and rather mundane lives to have a little fun.

2) It's all about the gritty realism.

God, where to begin..... OK, first, let it be known that I'm just speaking for myself here and on this part I don't even begin to presume to speak for the rest of the table.

Despite the fact that I, in fact, enjoy playing a character and building fictional social relationships, interacting with other characters in ways ranging from polite conversation at social functions to discussing arcane matters with eccentric sages, and despite the fact that, were it left to me, a game with less hack n' slash and more intrigue would be on tap, I am a staunch opponent of gritty realism in ANY AND ALL game environments.

I absolutely abhor being thrust into a cruel brown/grey world that, rather than being merely unfeeling, is actively hostile. It drives me to further frustration when this is not the outcome of my actions, but merely the natural state of things. If a character is being persecuted due to some action they took, or because of a choice made in character gen (such as being from a group that the main society is prejudiced against), that's one thing. If they're shown nothing but cruelty, duplicity, and madness merely because they exist irrespective of any qualities or behaviors the character has/engages in, it takes away from the gaming experience. If I wanted to be trod upon simply for being somewhere, I'd wear a fursuit to a convention full of /b/tards and SA goons.

Further, do not mistake this frustration from annoyance at being powerless. Having played many a low level wizard, and having started my gaming hobby as a Half-elven Mage/Thief in Advanced Second Edition, I know there's a certain fun to be had in being challenged. But there's a difference between being challenged and being set up to fail. In being challenged, there is indeed a way to come out ahead, if one has enough guile, magic, force of arms, or what have you. In being set up to fail, your defeat is inevitable. You cannot win. You cannot advance. You cannot progress. You cannot have any effect. Even your most valiant, selfless act of martyrdom will be forgotten and in vain as you are virtually inconsequential.

The world we faced in WarHammer was hostile and negative, eager to indulge our vices and punish even the slightest show of virtue. Each act of villainy or cruelty we performed was rewarded, and any attempt we made to do something even remotely positive was thwarted. The world, rather than being a crucible from which strong souls emerge, able to withstand the darkness of the world around them and inspire others to at least try to get beyond their dreadful existence and find some small degree of joy, was a grinder into which people were thrown, every ounce of decency crushed and stripped away and leaving little other than degeneracy and evil, as best exemplified by Ulrik (sp?) and his decline (which Ned really embraced, and it was rather amusing).

And this soul-crushing world of pain and torture where one is destined to live as a miserable little worker ant until someone more powerful simply snuffs them out without thought is supposed to be enjoyable and fun? Even REAL LIFE isn't this bad! I might be something of a masochist, but my appreciation of pain only extends to the artistic application of the physical variety and the comical form of mind-damaging experience, not to miserable drudgery.


3) Pfeifeldorf. Having said my peace above, let me just agree that this is NOT the way to have a game. In fact, this section could be a "what not to do in writing an adventure" case study.
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#8 CrazyMLC

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 10:49 AM

Yep, I think Ned did a good job.
But as far as everyone being evil, I think there was a nice old lady in that town Ned almost burned down.

I think it would be funny to follow a party of mutants acting like humans.
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#9 Balgin

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 11:22 AM

If they're shown nothing but cruelty, duplicity, and madness merely because they exist irrespective of any qualities or behaviors the character has/engages in, it takes away from the gaming experience.


I think that's mroe a case of the way the adventure was written than WFRP in general. Forcing the players to play a bunch of released convicts tends to paint them in an unflattering light and could lead to a lot of social stigma.

Further, do not mistake this frustration from annoyance at being powerless. Having played many a low level wizard, and having started my gaming hobby as a Half-elven Mage/Thief in Advanced Second Edition, I know there's a certain fun to be had in being challenged. But there's a difference between being challenged and being set up to fail. In being challenged, there is indeed a way to come out ahead, if one has enough guile, magic, force of arms, or what have you. In being set up to fail, your defeat is inevitable. You cannot win.


It did seem here that the group got fed up and ran out of guile. This setting themselves up to fail. It didn't seem as if the adventure, or the GM, was refusing to allow the players to do anything.

The world we faced in WarHammer was hostile and negative, eager to indulge our vices and punish even the slightest show of virtue. Each act of villainy or cruelty we performed was rewarded, and any attempt we made to do something even remotely positive was thwarted. The world, rather than being a crucible from which strong souls emerge, able to withstand the darkness of the world around them and inspire others to at least try to get beyond their dreadful existence and find some small degree of joy, was a grinder into which people were thrown, every ounce of decency crushed and stripped away and leaving little other than degeneracy and evil, as best exemplified by Ulrik (sp?) and his decline (which Ned really embraced, and it was rather amusing).


Now I'm going to disagree with you there. That had more to do with being forced to play petty criminals than the world in general. One of the themes of the Warhammer world is that corruption is everywhere. Heroes struggle to survive against it and remain pure whilst others may sink below the surface (and possibly even become chaos mutants).

With that being said, the Warhammer World is not a cheery happy Disney World walk in the park. it's harsh, it's gritty and there is no "one stop shop healing temple" on every street corner.

I really wish I'd been able to record my grou[p's recent WFRP sessions as they were rgeat fun. Gritty, realistic and not too downbeat.
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#10 Balgin

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 11:36 AM

Grr, stupid windows text box scrolling up whenever you press akey bug!

And the stupid going back a page to lose your post bug!

This is the third attempt now.

The Old World is less hellish and more akin to Haranshire (but with less idiots and less dragons and less magic). By that I mean that it's more concerned with everyday existence. Stuff like a farmer's crops being stolen by goblins and his family and the villag will starve as winter's coming on.

There's less "18th level landscape gardener" stuff (as in combat wizard demolishing landscape features on a whim) because that's just tacky and it's aiming for a more believable world. The "varyiong degrees of corruption" and "corruption being open to interpretation by the witch hunters" thing works well for people who don't like the perceived rigidity of the AD&D alignment system.

Why were there so many witch hunters in this campaign? There really aren't supposed to be that many of them.
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#11 Caelvan

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 12:05 PM

While listening to the Warhammer games was a lot of fun, and it definitely had its moments of fun, I must say that I did not enjoy this set of games as much as some of the others. I found the play a little on the tedious side, and it seemed like the players never really moved forward.

As a result, while I wanted to see what happened (or will happen) to the characters, I am not sad to see the game end.
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#12 CrazyMLC

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 12:31 PM

Things seemed to move rather slowly, and nobody even leveled up as far as I remember.
It does seem the the campaign really just wanted to funnel the players, they're prisoners, if they do anything against the campaign they're be chased down and killed. Not really all that great.
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#13 Murine_Archmage

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 12:53 PM

I think that's more a case of the way the adventure was written than WFRP in general. Forcing the players to play a bunch of released convicts tends to paint them in an unflattering light and could lead to a lot of social stigma.


OK, I'll grant that as fair. Perhaps coming in with a different (read: not mandated) background or at a different location would've produced a different outcome. Perhaps it could even be a thoroughly enjoyable experience. as it was, however...

It did seem here that the group got fed up and ran out of guile. This setting themselves up to fail. It didn't seem as if the adventure, or the GM, was refusing to allow the players to do anything.


In video-gaming, we have a term called 'ragequitting', often including actions such as literally throwing a controller in frustration and shouting obscenities at the game (or unfortunate passers-by). That's sort of what happened here. No fault to the GM, who tried his damnedest to make this fun and interesting, but the adventure was pretty heavily on rails. The NPCs seemed to exist to do one of two things: lead us to corruption or point us toward the plot (read: lower the safety harness then shackle us on the ride to the next plot point).

In the interest of fairness, I'll grant that most of us were unfamiliar with the setting and the rules of society that govern it. That said, any time we did what we were told and followed the nice rail from stop to stop, we always got told "Sorry, that's not enough. Go do more and make it snappy." Initially, as I remember it, we would usually try and say that either a) we just got our asses handed to us and need rest or b) but you didn't say anything about that when we were shanghaied into this. A led to "Fine, let the injured ones rest. What are the rest of you still doing here! Move!" On the other hand, B was usually met with a blank stare and the equivalent of "Didn't I say jump? Why are your feet still on the ground? We can always just send you back to the mine..."

When any attempt to resolve the task is met with an extension of the task, frustration starts to mount. When the task in question was finally accomplished and we felt momentarily better having actually dotted the t's and crossed the i's, Pfeifeldorf happened. There, we ran into a mess so poorly written it seemed everyone just gave up. It wasn't due to running out of ideas, but due to the sheer amount of bullshit we had to endure on a pointless sidequest. In character, we all had better things to do, and got shanghaied by some self-important minor noble into cleaning up a mess he himself didn't give a damn about simply because we were there.

Imagine if you had just gotten your car out of the shop after a week and were driving off to something important. You're feeling good because you finally have a ride again, and it's just good to be out. Half way there, some asshole politician sets up a roadblock and personally flags you out of your car. You explain you have other things to do, and he proceeds to tell you that he'll be impounding your car until you do him a favor.

Tell me that somewhere in the back of your mind you don't have the urge to knock his teeth out. I dare ya.

Now, add to it that the favor, while sounding minor (not to mention like something people that actually work for him should be handling), turns into a barter train from hell, with you having to exchange this and that back and forth for the information you need rather than being able to investigate (as any attempt to do so is stymied).

Now you have people that were already frustrated dealing with obstinate people. This is a recipe for disaster, especially when its made clear that only by playing this tedious game with the locals will you advance and be able to go on to doing what you've actually set out to do. The annoyance and frustration builds in a prime example of a feedback loop

Frustration due to being giving a trivial and irrelevant task that MUST be accomplished before moving on with goal->Acting frustrated with obstinate people who are key to this task->People make things more frustrating and give even more trivial tasks-> Frustration accrues->More trivial tasks accrue-> (Continue ad nauseum)

Had that section never occurred, it would be likely the game would've gone longer (with only James being angry, but he's just like that :P). Admittedly probably not too much longer, as it would be highly probable that a repeat of the "Sorry, but our resolution is in another mutant-infested marsh/dung-filled ghetto", but longer nonetheless.


Now I'm going to disagree with you there. That had more to do with being forced to play petty criminals than the world in general. One of the themes of the Warhammer world is that corruption is everywhere. Heroes struggle to survive against it and remain pure whilst others may sink below the surface (and possibly even become chaos mutants).

With that being said, the Warhammer World is not a cheery happy Disney World walk in the park. it's harsh, it's gritty and there is no "one stop shop healing temple" on every street corner.


To the first point, I can't really argue. After all this has been my only Warhammer experience, and I haven't read any of the novels, so I'm not really qualified to speak beyond what I played firsthand. My opinion on that experience still stands.

To the part about the harsh, gritty nature of Warhammer, can't say that I argue, or that my experience differs from that. I can, however, say I didn't enjoy it, and that gritty realism is simply not my cup o' tea. To me, gaming is and has always been an escape from reality. Seems counterproductive to escape reality by trying hard to emulate the conditions found therein. Not saying that some touches of familiarity and realism are unwelcome, but if I wanted to be a bum in a squallid ghetto struggling to survive, I could go live under a bridge (I'm sure past experiences such as having to sleep in my car and having lived in particularly horrid conditions for a few months [both from when I was 13] bias me against grit, so bear that in mind and take all this with a grain of salt).


As an addendum, I do apologize for any hostility I've expressed. It's not intentional, and likely partially stems from other gaming-related frustrations (one of my players working Ren Faire this year threw my other game's schedule completely out of wack, and I do miss doing things in my favorite campaign world/system. Lord knows I can't con anyone outside my other group into running it for anyone [considering no one else in my other group is willing/able to run a game of anything. It's the "all players, no DMs" problem]. Somehow all arguments boil down to 'no, it's a furry game'.)
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#14 Balgin

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 01:15 PM

I really, strongly, want to suggest that Hal runs a WFRP single adventure/scenario for your guys rather than a full blown campaign. In fact, I'd like to suggest A Rough Night at the Three Feathers or For Love Or Money. I'd alos lik to suggest that ned be forced to play a wizard's apprnetice so he can see that the magic he was missing out on wasn't such agreat big deal anyway (and realise the fuss he was making over it was disproportionate to what he was missing).

I also think Pfeifeldorf killed the adventure.
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#15 ZachDood77

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 01:19 PM

Goggles I get the same problem trying to get people to play Mouseguard... They have seizures when they realize they have to play Mice!!
Anyway Balgin, if Goggles is a indication of the rest of the group's mood regarding Warhammer they might approach it with... less then a positive outlook. Although single adventures might be a good way to go about it.
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#16 Balgin

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 01:55 PM

Chris just hated it. But then he seems to be doing that in at least 3 different games at the moment.
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#17 James

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 06:38 PM

Had that section never occurred, it would be likely the game would've gone longer (with only James being angry, but he's just like that ).


Was this town with the missing chicken?

Yes, I am like that.
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#18 Face

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 02:53 AM

Either we start paying the players for their time or we let them get on with enjoying their hobby. Right?


... No disrespect to the OP, I liked the setting too.
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#19 Lindsay

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 08:51 AM

Look, they're the bunch of folk who played like idiots


To be honest, I'm having a hard time getting past this phrase, I find it quite offensive..

I have tried not to post about it, for fear of causing some kind of altercation, but I'm pretty upset by it.

Balgin, you have an opinion about us, which you are welcome to, but I'm of the opinion that if you don't have anything nice to say, then maybe you shouldn't say anything at all.


Chris just hated it. But then he seems to be doing that in at least 3 different games at the moment.


I also think this is uncalled for.
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#20 Hal

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 08:56 AM

Why were there so many witch hunters in this campaign? There really aren't supposed to be that many of them.


The Witch Hunters were guarding the Witch to ensure she did not escape. She was a rather high profile candidate being a top level priestess of Shallya.

There were only 3 :) Not like it was a convention...

Hal :hal:
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