Jump to content

  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account
DriveThruRPG.com
Photo

The death from above maneuver...


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Phneri

Phneri

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 100 posts

Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:08 PM

So, in my game the party occasionally goes for the route of looney tunes violence.

In tonight's session the druid flew above a creature, then turned himself into a 6000 lb rhinocerous, then plummeted onto the creature below.

Now, according to the falling object rules, that's essentially a 20d6 attack in exchange of two wildshapes. While hilarious, this can quickly become a little unbalanced.

While there's always the reduction of the attack power, harsher penalties, etc. I'd like to still make this a viable option, as it keeps the players thinking more creatively than "I roll d20 until it dies."

Any thoughts?
  • 0

#2 Dungnmaster001

Dungnmaster001

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 215 posts

Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:07 PM

So, in my game the party occasionally goes for the route of looney tunes violence.

In tonight's session the druid flew above a creature, then turned himself into a 6000 lb rhinocerous, then plummeted onto the creature below.

Now, according to the falling object rules, that's essentially a 20d6 attack in exchange of two wildshapes. While hilarious, this can quickly become a little unbalanced.

While there's always the reduction of the attack power, harsher penalties, etc. I'd like to still make this a viable option, as it keeps the players thinking more creatively than "I roll d20 until it dies."

Any thoughts?


First, I'm going to assume the druid in question is actually able to wildshape into a rhino (8th level or higher for Large 8HD Creature) Assuming that then he can only do this a limited number of times per day (10th level he'd be able to do it twice since it takes 2 shifts per attack) so while powerful it's not terribly overpowering.

Second, I'd say the creature in question would recieve a reflex save (either half or no damage, up to you) to dodge the falling object.

Third, consider also that in order to land on said creature the druid has to enter his space which would grant the target an attack of opportunity.

And Fourth, while it's a minor point, the druid would take damage from the fall also (1d6 per 10 feet) And you'd also be within rights I'd say to increase that based on the target. For example landing on a warrior in full plate with armor spikes would hurt :).

Any or all of these can be combined to help with balance while preserving the power of the clever maneuver.

Lastly, you can go the more balanced but less realistic route and just rule it doesn't count as a falling object and treat it as a charge attack using the rhino's charge damage.
  • 0

#3 ross

ross

    Ghoul

  • Members
  • 840 posts

Posted 11 September 2009 - 02:50 AM

i concure :-)
you wuld ebd up whith sqished rino
  • 0

#4 Pencil-Monkey

Pencil-Monkey

    Kyton

  • Site Artist
  • 5,831 posts

Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:23 AM

I remember an anecdote from the Knights of the Dinner Table magazine, where an enterprising mage came up with the idea to use Summon Monster I as a direct attack spell, conjuring a badger into being in midair, directly above whatever opponent they were fighting at the time.

The hapless wandering encounters would get an upturned face full of gravitationally propelled burrowing mammal. He got away with it, probably because it was an intro game, and everyone (including the DM) were pretty green. :)
  • 0

#5 Balgin

Balgin

    The Dwarf

  • Patrons
  • 2,109 posts
  • LocationRingwood, Hampshire, England

Posted 11 September 2009 - 07:44 AM

I prefer 1st ed when falliong damage was cumulative. So 10' - 1 d6, 20' 3 d6. It still capped out at 200' but by then you were rolling about 50 d6 for damage (maybe even more). It really prevented lunatic schemes like this but then it had to get dumbed down and be linnear for 2nd ed :(. And you thought fireballs were complicated :P.
  • 0

#6 Daniel

Daniel

    Gelatinous Cube

  • Members
  • 2,825 posts
  • LocationYork

Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:13 AM

Fireballs helped so many players learn non-linear mathematics :P
  • 0

#7 Phneri

Phneri

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 100 posts

Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:30 AM

Lastly, you can go the more balanced but less realistic route and just rule it doesn't count as a falling object and treat it as a charge attack using the rhino's charge damage.


Oh, and as he took a full round to line it up previously, I essentially let him have the falling damage + the change (it was falling horn-first, after all).

At which point the player rolls a natural one. And the flesh golem neatly sidesteps as the rhino buries itself into a 3-4' crater face-first.

:lol:
  • 0

#8 MelkiorWhiteblade

MelkiorWhiteblade

    Lantern Archon

  • Members
  • 1,186 posts
  • LocationRoseville, CA

Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:31 AM

I echo the reflex save...Nobody is going to sit still while a rhino is plummeting at them.

But, in the DMG I think they caution that spells and spell-like effects should have a damage cap. Rhino shape-change is minimum 8th level, so at 1d6 per level is 8d6, save for half.

I assume that it's weight, if at least 4,000 pounds means it only has to fall 10 feet to do the maximum 20d6 falling damage.

I don't like it much, but since it can't be used often, and only outside or where there is room for a rhino to fall at least 10 feet, I guess it would be okay. I think this is one of those: the first time is okay, don't push it.

Hmmm, a falling nimbic would only have to drop about 240 feet to also do 20d6 damage.
  • 0

#9 Dungnmaster001

Dungnmaster001

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 215 posts

Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:31 AM

I prefer 1st ed when falliong damage was cumulative. So 10' - 1 d6, 20' 3 d6. It still capped out at 200' but by then you were rolling about 50 d6 for damage (maybe even more). It really prevented lunatic schemes like this but then it had to get dumbed down and be linnear for 2nd ed :(. And you thought fireballs were complicated :P.


it wouldn't help in this case since the druid is likely only 10' off the ground when he shifts to rhino. The massive damage being dealt to the target is from the falling objects table which gives a 6000 pound object falling damage of 20d6 (actually it would be even more but it caps at 20d6)
  • 0

#10 Balgin

Balgin

    The Dwarf

  • Patrons
  • 2,109 posts
  • LocationRingwood, Hampshire, England

Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:13 PM

I've known a lot of characters use Summon Water directly above enemy spellcasters in an attempt to break their concentration. Now personaly I prefer the idea of it bubbling up from the ground or endlessly pouring out of acup but the Disney flash bang approach AD&D takes to magic thus reinforcing the big "suddenly there's a gallon of water above your head and it hears gravity's call" idea should surely shock, stun or at least disrupt anything complex.
  • 0

#11 ross

ross

    Ghoul

  • Members
  • 840 posts

Posted 12 September 2009 - 01:11 AM

Hmmm, a falling nimbic would only have to drop about 240 feet to also do 20d6 damage.



i am not shure it ever wuld do 20d6,
it all depends on the terminal valocaty of the objeckt. thow i dont know the math, small lite objects(in big hats ) have a much lower terminal valocaty than a rino. as a result thay probably arnt good things to drop on youre enamys
  • 0

#12 Fin

Fin

    Stirge

  • Members
  • 311 posts

Posted 12 September 2009 - 04:29 AM

But worth a try never the less :lol:

Fin :twisted:

(Still, still not a father!) :starwars:
  • 0

#13 Isis

Isis

    Star-Gazing

  • Patrons
  • 2,148 posts
  • LocationThe misty hills of Yorkshire

Posted 12 September 2009 - 04:43 AM

You can always start feeding Imogen spicy curries and taking her on long uphill walks. :D
  • 0

#14 Keener

Keener

    Is Wonderful!

  • Patrons
  • 4,977 posts
  • LocationCalgary, AB, Canada

Posted 12 September 2009 - 05:58 AM

I would make suggestions but I was just short of a month late. :D What can I say I was comfortable. :D
  • 0

#15 Fin

Fin

    Stirge

  • Members
  • 311 posts

Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:16 PM

I've told Imogen, I'm busy on Monday (Yogradio), Tuesday (Accordlands) and Thurday (Job Interview and Tatters of the King) so she needs to time it right if she wants me there :lol:

Today is the due date but predicting that seemed more of an art than a science so it's anyone guess! Maybe a Poll is in order!

Fin :twisted:

:starwars:
  • 0

#16 Phneri

Phneri

    Goblin

  • Members
  • 100 posts

Posted 12 September 2009 - 06:23 PM

Considering the creature is large (and thus a 10' cube according to D&D rules), I may rule that it has to hit AC 10 to aim (with appropriate negatives for aiming a falling rhino), then give all in the 10' square a reflex save to avoid 10d6 damage.

I might up that to 12d6 or some thing given that it does use about half of the druid's wildshapes for the day (8th level druid with extra wild shape feat from complete divine). At this point he can creatively get a physical AOE alternative to flamestrike, which just looks slightly more hysterical.

And speaking of Rhinos, dear lord their charge damage is broken.

Also, Fin, apparently the sound of artillery fire/cannons have been known to induce labor.

Just saying. And it would be a totally metal way to bring an infant into the world.
  • 0

#17 popper

popper

    RPGMP3 Patron

  • Patrons
  • 136 posts

Posted 13 September 2009 - 10:25 AM

There's nothing wrong with letting the Druid do anything that appeals to his character, however, there is also nothing wrong with forcing him to take damage from his actions. It's similar to football. Yes you can do a flying leap and cross the goal line for a touchdown, but you can also get hit by three 250 lbs linebackers and be broken for life.

That said, I remember there being a bit of controversy at one time about the summon animal/monster/nature's ally spell where players were summoning whales in caverns to drop on hordes of enemies. It apparently became so pervasive that Wizards actually spoke on it at the time (though I'll be damned if I can find the article since the conversion) and ruled that no creature can be summoned into a foreign environment. Thus a rhinoceros couldn't be summoned in a lake or a whale in the air.
  • 0

#18 Pencil-Monkey

Pencil-Monkey

    Kyton

  • Site Artist
  • 5,831 posts

Posted 14 September 2009 - 01:59 AM

I would make suggestions but I was just short of a month late. :D What can I say I was comfortable. :D

Wow, I didn't even know you'd been pregnant! ;)
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Gravityscan Badge