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Night Below Character Creation


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#21 PrestoJeff

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:03 AM

Looking forward to listening to this! Is anyone else curious how Splug would work in 2e?
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#22 Elizur

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 02:14 PM

Dungeons and Dragons!

Welcome back, ah good ole Dungeons and Dragons 2e.

I think I'll go crack open those books again and have a look.

Very happy to see a dnd run.

:)
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#23 mkenaz

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:17 AM

o man this is sooo nostalgic, i have gotta break my adnd books out half-orc swashbuckler here i come
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#24 Illianthar

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:56 PM

A return to 2e gaming, awesome! THAC0 was my favorite game mechanic of all time...mostly because there's always someone that can't seem to get the addition by subtraction down.
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#25 ShootHere

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 01:46 AM

Oh my lord!

This is the very first adventure I played with a regular group so many years ago...

Thank you for sparking these warm and fuzzy memories in my brain.
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#26 wmandersonjr

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 12:29 AM

Great podcast. I've been listening to the podcast on the subway to work and it reminded me back when I played 2nd edition in the 90's (I currently run Hackmaster so I am not that rusty with the rules). I had forgotten that the 2nd edition PHB never directly stated the second flavor of True Neutral, someone who was unaligned with either Good, Evil, Law, or Chaos, just simply self-centered or dedicated to something neutral to ethos or morality, like Magic. I would have suggested that alignment to the player who wanted to a self-centered mercenary type character.
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#27 Balgin

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 07:22 AM

Nah, self centered is definately chaotic neutral.
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#28 mad_hatchet

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 08:14 AM

Nah, self centered is definately chaotic neutral.


I believe I just heard Chaotic Neutral referred to as the "axe murder's alignment" by Hal 8O .

I'm looking forward to hearing more ADnD, but it seems like they really improved on the alignment descriptions in 3.0 & 3.5. I for one enjoyed having some characters (mine or otherwise) start out as the "non-aligned" flavor of Neutral, and then just shifting alignments as the characters' personalities got built up.
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#29 Balgin

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 08:23 AM

I'm looking forward to hearing more ADnD, but it seems like they really improved on the alignment descriptions in 3.0 & 3.5.


The 3rd ed alignment descriptions are a lot closer to the 1st ed ones than the 2nd ed ones were.
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#30 Ieqo

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:25 AM

Alignment is one of those things that roleplayers eventually grow out of. Here we see one of the reasons why: Chris plays his character with a certain unique outlook on life and morality, and everyone on teh interwebs argues over which of the nine pidgeonholes it fits into. :-)
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#31 Thing

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:34 AM

Alignment is one of those things that roleplayers eventually grow out of. Here we see one of the reasons why: Chris plays his character with a certain unique outlook on life and morality, and everyone on teh interwebs argues over which of the nine pidgeonholes it fits into. :-)


The only problem with growing out of Alignment is a lot of game mechanics like Detection and protection vs alignment spells & abilities rely on it.
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#32 JoeGun

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:06 PM

Yes but if you decide to "grow out of" alignment, then the GM just decides who is and isn't detected/protected.
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#33 Murine_Archmage

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:51 PM

Alignment is one of those things that roleplayers eventually grow out of. Here we see one of the reasons why: Chris plays his character with a certain unique outlook on life and morality, and everyone on teh interwebs argues over which of the nine pidgeonholes it fits into. :-)


Does that mean we grow out of classes, too? I mean, 4 prime archetypes, each with slightly varied subcategories, forcing you into a specific way of running a character, sometimes really jamming you into a tight confine (see: Samurai, Paladin, Cavalier...).

Yeah, I was bored... really, REALLY bored. And since my favorite system has careers rather than classes and no alignment, that makes this... Class?

Entirely Pointless!

That's right! You're such a good class! Time for recess!

*Yeah, boredom is too an excuse for random posting! If you don't believe me, see below **





** HA! Made ya look!
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#34 Ieqo

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:56 PM

The only problem with growing out of Alignment is a lot of game mechanics like Detection and protection vs alignment spells & abilities rely on it.


Absolutely true. I actually wrote my opinions on the whole issue a couple weeks ago. Being too lazy to copy/paste, I'll just LINK IT. It is one of those things that is hard to make perfect: either you use it as-is and have people complaining about being pidgeonholed, or you chuck it out and have people complain about their plot-breaking 'detect evil' ability being useless, or you make it much more complex and have people complain about it being too complex. Guess which approach I favor? :-)

Does that mean we grow out of classes, too?


Honestly, I rather enjoy the so-called "classless" systems as well. I just haven't done a blog post on the topic yet. :-)
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#35 Snappyapple

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:13 PM

I blame the... uhh, ambiguity, if we can call it that, of Chris' character due to the nature of the player himself. :lol:

Anyway, at least a class and/or level system has its uses for certain game systems, even if it's not to certain people's tastes. The traditional D&D alignment system usually ends up feeling like an artificial crutch for the alignment-based mechanics to work and having little defining significance for PCs. Certain settings for D&D, however, have made alignment more substantial to the characters and the world, such as Planescape or Dark Sun.
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#36 Pheonix

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:49 PM

Detect Evil doesn't work in Ravenloft... :twisted:
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#37 Cuchulain

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 07:57 PM

....In Communist Ravenloft, Evil detects you...

[/absurd attempt at comedy]
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#38 Balgin

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 08:03 AM

....In Communist Ravenloft, Evil detects you...

[/absurd attempt at comedy]


Actualy it does. And if you're good it tends to know, if you're a paladin it can define your location down to about a square mile and if you're wielding a holy avenger, down to a much smaller area (something like 1000 square feet).

I actualy like the AD&D alignment system because it works. CWhen compared to other alignment systems from other games it's definitely the best one out there. Others are often linnear or just really badly thought out.

Does anyone remember how TSR fell in love with mercenaries? In 1st edition mercenaries were always chaotic neutral (because they owed loyalty to nothing other than could and would often switch sides at the drop of ahat if the pay was right). Then aload of second edition writers started writing adventures with lots of mercenaries (and apparently mercenaries were always beter than professional soldiers) who were always lawful neutral - they had a contract and were going to fulfill it. Very professional but not really mercenary enough. Back in third edition they realised mercenaries ahd blatantly been chaotic neutral all along and all those so called lawful neutral mercenaries hadn't really been mercenaries, just very professional soldiers who's boss payed them to claim to be mercenaries because he thought it was more glamourous or something.
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#39 PrestoJeff

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 10:23 AM

Chris's character's alignment is usually "amoral" from what I've heard.... :twisted:
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#40 mad_hatchet

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 11:45 AM

Chris's character's alignment is usually "amoral" from what I've heard.... :twisted:


But he lacks the devotion or consistency for an "Evil" alignment...
On the other hand, if you want to play a Chaotic Good character in 4e, you can just write "David" in the alignment box, and everybody should understand :wink:

In defense of "alignments", not only do they have some value for game mechanics, but I personally can say they've started some interesting discussions in and out of character.

Ieqo, correct me if I'm getting off track, but is the balding dwarf at the back of the classroom supposed to represent... Karl Marx? Is that related at all to your comments in support of "classless systems"?
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