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Godlike


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#1 GMdave81

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 11:37 PM

Hey Folks, Dave here, letting you know we just recorded our play and review session of "Godlike:Superhero Roleplaying in a world on Fire."

Should be on the site in a few days.
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#2 thranduul

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 12:39 PM

Awesome!!! Can't wait!! :D
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#3 GMdave81

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 05:38 PM

It is now up!

And beware, it's another doozy of Frustration and crying.
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#4 SentinelPrime

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 09:55 PM

The review podcast goes silent after a few minutes, but the play session was filled with enough anger and arguments that everyone can tell exactly how awful that game is.
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#5 Martimus

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 12:39 AM

It is now up!

And beware, it's another doozy of Frustration and crying.


Hey Dave,

Having Gm'd Wild Talents for the Tuesday Nighter group, I'd be interested to hear where you thought Godlike fell down. I'm quite a fan of the ORE system generally although the original WT left a lot of hand wavery for the GM and players to contend with. Was it the ORE system or the Setting that gave you grief?

M
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#6 GMdave81

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 02:21 AM

It is now up!

And beware, it's another doozy of Frustration and crying.


Hey Dave,

Having Gm'd Wild Talents for the Tuesday Nighter group, I'd be interested to hear where you thought Godlike fell down. I'm quite a fan of the ORE system generally although the original WT left a lot of hand wavery for the GM and players to contend with. Was it the ORE system or the Setting that gave you grief?

M


Personally, I'd have to say it was both.

First off, the system is horribly unbalanced. All of the characters in the playtest and NPC's were designed using the same amount of points.

As the game went to eventually show, Shawn's character "Private Parker" was the most effective character in the game, beyond my Nazi NPC "Blitzen". Simply raising your coordination to near maximum makes anyone an unstoppable killing machine that can also dodge bullets, and take multiple actions.

Meanwhile, Shanes character was a one shot wonder who did less damage then a Thompson machine gun, and had to stack horrible limitations just to get his Eye beams off.

While Nick's character was a regenerater who lacked enough Will points to even make it to the end of the scenario.

You also had a skill list with to many ill defined skills.

The Math is also wrong for showing the likely hood for rolling success as well, this is one of those games that penalizes players unless they have gobs and gobs of Dice.

As for the setting, I didn't like it either for several reasons. The designers of the game had no idea what they were trying to go for. I'm severely against settings which have Godlike NPC's who overshadow PC characters.

(This is a large reason why I feel Legend of the Five Rings, 1st edition and 2nd edition are horrible settings. To many ukillable godlike NPC's who steal the show)

The average NPC Talent in the back of the book is built on around 50-60 talent points with many going into the 80'-100's range.

PC's in contrast are built on 25 points..

So this is the setting where you have Superman flying around and winning the war, while the players are basically Metropolis Police with some crappy Laser guns. It's just not fair to PC's, I mean their sample example Party has a guy who can inhale a few pounds of stuff for a few seconds..
LET ME REPEAT THAT... in the setting where the NPC's do things like, Fly faster then the speed of sound and blow up ships with their speed wake, survive nuclear explosions, Have massive telekensis which can rip planes from the air...

Their sample "PC" had the ability to inhale objects for a few seconds. Oh by the way, it can't kill or harm anyone either.

Personally, when I run games, I run them for my players to have fun. Maybe some folks get off on being "So hardcore" and sucking a 100 times more then any of the statted NPC's, but we do it as a form of escapism.

Second off, was the Sexism and Racism inherent in the game. I don't mean it actively was racist that it promoted Nazi ideology, no. It's just much more backhanded.

There are almost no Minority NPC's present. We don't have any Tuskege Airmen Talents, we don't have any black American talents I can recall off the top of my head period. The sample Japanese Talent teleports away when he's in danger.. so what does he do? Flies Kamikaze missions over and over again... Come on now, this is like making an Arab Talent in Modern day who can suicide bomb himself over and over again, it's in poor taste.

The three female NPC Talents are Victim Girl, Succubus Woman, and Super Screamer. More or less showing us the place woman have in this setting.

Oh I get it's World War 2, but come on now.. This is a Roleplaying game, it should be made to appeal to more then just White Men. As i said in my rant in the review session (Unless Nick edited that out) My Girlfriend is African-American and a Gamer, this setting basically makes her sit out on the sidelines.

In Contrast, games like Wierd Wars and Glory Days, which both also take place in WW2, make concessions in reality so that everyone, reguardless of Gender or Ethnicity can make a character and get in on the action.

The same just isn't made in this game. That's why overall I despised it. Bad System, and Bad setting.

Whoo longer then I thought to write this! :D
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#7 BigJackBrass

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:49 AM

I'm severely against settings which have Godlike NPC's...

Although it would be hard to avoid that in this particular game... :wink:

*ahem* Sorry, I'll get me coat...
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#8 GMdave81

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 10:06 AM

I'm severely against settings which have Godlike NPC's...

Although it would be hard to avoid that in this particular game... :wink:

*ahem* Sorry, I'll get me coat...


Cue the Snare drum!
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#9 BigJackBrass

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 02:52 PM

First off, the system is horribly unbalanced.

In fairness the authors do actually mention this, in Wild Talents at least (I can't speak for Godlike). It's not an uncommon situation (in super-hero games especially) for players to be able to build extremely effective and distressingly ineffective PCs with the same resources. The problem is how to allow a very wide range of possibilities without letting people get away with murder. Sometimes it only comes with experience, trying a few characters in a given system to get a feeling for in-game effectiveness, or a good discussion between players and GM might help to steer everyone down an appropriate path, but even Champions - arguably the most rigorous and balanced character generation system out there - can easily produce characters at both ends of the scale.

That's not a criticism of you and your players, nor a specific defence of Godlike: I happen to be particularly interested in ORE-based games at the moment because I'm re-reading Wild Talents to see if it will suit a setting idea I have. If a game is causing massive problems from the outset then it may well either be quite flawed or just not appropriate for a given group; and since I've yet to play Wild Talents and haven't played Godlike, which I believe does indeed deliberately feature very fragile superhumans, I can't comment from personal experience. Is there any discussion in the game of why the PCs are so overshadowed by the NPCs?

The issues you highlight with the setting are interesting. I've heard occasional comments about the game, mostly along the lines of it being a great idea, but there really appear to be some very awkward elements involved, judging by what you've written. Sexism and racism are certainly appropriate to the time and genre, but it doesn't sound as if they've been handled at all well. That's a great pity, because the appearance of superhumans could be a terrific way to tackle racist and sexist themes in a mature and modern way without being inappropriate to either the setting or to contemporary audiences.

Ah well, I'll keep reading the system but it sounds as though the Godlike setting wouldn't suit me at all.
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#10 GMdave81

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 03:03 PM

First off, the system is horribly unbalanced.

In fairness the authors do actually mention this, in Wild Talents at least (I can't speak for Godlike). It's not an uncommon situation (in super-hero games especially) for players to be able to build extremely effective and distressingly ineffective PCs with the same resources. The problem is how to allow a very wide range of possibilities without letting people get away with murder. Sometimes it only comes with experience, trying a few characters in a given system to get a feeling for in-game effectiveness, or a good discussion between players and GM might help to steer everyone down an appropriate path, but even Champions - arguably the most rigorous and balanced character generation system out there - can easily produce characters at both ends of the scale.

That's not a criticism of you and your players, nor a specific defence of Godlike: I happen to be particularly interested in ORE-based games at the moment because I'm re-reading Wild Talents to see if it will suit a setting idea I have. If a game is causing massive problems from the outset then it may well either be quite flawed or just not appropriate for a given group; and since I've yet to play Wild Talents and haven't played Godlike, which I believe does indeed deliberately feature very fragile superhumans, I can't comment from personal experience. Is there any discussion in the game of why the PCs are so overshadowed by the NPCs?

The issues you highlight with the setting are interesting. I've heard occasional comments about the game, mostly along the lines of it being a great idea, but there really appear to be some very awkward elements involved, judging by what you've written. Sexism and racism are certainly appropriate to the time and genre, but it doesn't sound as if they've been handled at all well. That's a great pity, because the appearance of superhumans could be a terrific way to tackle racist and sexist themes in a mature and modern way without being inappropriate to either the setting or to contemporary audiences.

Ah well, I'll keep reading the system but it sounds as though the Godlike setting wouldn't suit me at all.


You bring up some good points, and really any GM worth their salt can make sure their players are balanced even in the most unbalanced system...

But the idea behind our 20 weeks of Hell Project is to really stress test these systems, to see if they inherently have some controls to help maintain that balance.

Dawn of Legends didn't have those, and neither Does Godlike. Champions at least puts big Stop signs and Yeild signs up in front of the Dangerous and world breaking powers.

The system itself is just bad as well, since the majority of time players will fail. Now if the theory behind the rolling is like that in say another game made by Greg Stolze, "Unknown Armies" Then unlike other RPG's your only ever suppose to Roll when it's absolutely neccessary.

But this isn't really stressed as much, and I've always been against that sort of RPG myself. I'm not a fan of Diceless systems, I always belive Story SHOULD take precedence over dice rolls, but those randomizers make the story more interesting.

In our Godlike playtest their's an interesting part where the characters litterally WANDER AROUND FOR HOURS because none of them have succeeded at reading a map. They even have the map reading skill as part of their character package.

Now theoretically you could argue there never suppose to make that roll unless it's absolutely crucial, but then why put a map reading skill in the game then?

One of their skill examples in the book is about a woman nearly crashing her car while she attempts to put her make up on at the same time... but luckily she has the skill "PUT MAKE UP ON AND DRIVE AT SAME TIME" no I'm not making that up, it's a suggested skill in the game for normal folks.

The Sexism and Racism angles are messed up in this simply because their just not addressed. It's never talked about.. It's like this game WAS litterally made in the 1950's. I suppose this was an attempt at trying to not be prejudiced by not talking about the issue, but at the same time.. If you were an African Descent gamer and picked up this game, you might be sorely disapointed.. God Forbid you try and get your Girlfriend to play..

At least in other WW2 games they have provisions for that sort of thing.
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#11 BigJackBrass

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 03:10 PM

One of their skill examples in the book is about a woman nearly crashing her car while she attempts to put her make up on at the same time... but luckily she has the skill "PUT MAKE UP ON AND DRIVE AT SAME TIME" no I'm not making that up, it's a suggested skill in the game for normal folks.

Let me just pick my jaw up off the desk... 8O
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#12 GMdave81

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 03:16 PM

Hmm seems like Nick might of posted a broke audio of our discussion session, I'll get on him about that.
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#13 GMdave81

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 06:23 PM

Okay folks, the Discussion session should work now, it's been fixed.
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#14 ZachDood77

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 08:44 PM

Cool more 20 weeks of hell. What's next on the agenda sir? Any chance of it being Mekton Z?
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#15 GMdave81

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:07 PM

The next game up is "NightBane" By Palladium.
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#16 sonoma3

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:28 PM

a good listen, if only for the roll and fail gameplay.

I have to say hearing some of the setting rules I have to say that half of them are kinda cop outs, the other ones seem random. The idea that mind reading is crazy but Baba Yaga is just fine (especially since the former is much more of a common meme).

As a side not you brought up in this and AFMBE about the
skill + attributes for rolls being white wolf. To be fair lots of systems besides white wolf do that. AFMBE feels more like D&D 3.x with degrees of success than WOD. (Besides the 1-5 attributes)
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#17 GMdave81

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 10:25 PM

Thing is though, in the Book, Greg Stolze specifically thanks Whitewolf for blazing that trail of Attribute+Skill system.
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#18 sonoma3

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 11:25 PM

Touché sir.
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#19 Demon45

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:04 PM

Hello,

I have recently started listening to some of your podcasts and I have found them very entertaining and informative. I especially like your Dawn of legends review.

A friend recomended your Godlike review and actual play as one of your best ones. But I cant`t find it anywhere on this site and my friend does not have the podcast saved.

If you could you link to a place where I could download the podcast I would be very grateful :)
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