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Thunderspire Labyrinth Session 14 (DnD 4e Session 25)


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#61 Hal

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:48 PM

As everyone on here knows I am more than happy to steer away from the written plot of an adventure if the party are wanting to head that way. I run the adventures as best as they can be run. It is not just me that has said that the DnD published stuff is just fight after fight after fight... if you read forums all over the net they are saying the same.

We have house ruled the system and to be honest the system is fine. It really has no "soul" but it is fine. I could run a decent game with the rules and things would work out well.

I think what you are hearing initially is the system shock of the change from 3rd to 4th. I am pretty certain that there were some members of your own group who disliked or misinterpreted some of the rules initially. They would not all be wide eyed and wide mouthed at the wonders being fed them by WotC (I would hope).

The 4e stuff has been fun to run and play but we are going to be taking a break from it for a while. I had hoped that Pyramid of Shadows would break the combat heavy mold but apparently not. I was hoping for traps and coolness and I get tree and plant monsters in more set piece rooms.

I have never had a system wear me down because everything is always the same before. I appreciate that the published adventures are for beginning DMs and players and may be a lot more linear than the things I am used to running but I had hoped that WotC could have showcased some of the stuff outside of combat.

I have to say the bit I have enjoyed most so far is near the start of Thunderspire where the group arrive in the Seven Pillared Hall and have to have some discussions with the inhabitants. I always prefer freeform games to rigid ones and I know you will say the rules are wonderful but I am finding that I am not getting as much back running this as I would say a game of Rolemaster or Vampire. It is essentially like I am setting up a board game and we are playing that and that is not why I roleplay.

DnD 4e has it's place and in the spirit of review we cannot expect everyone to like it. Thats the point. I have always tried to present an unbiased viewpoint but if I find something is not to my liking I am going to say so otherwise I might as well give my bank details to WotC, bend over and let then shove a huge sack full of pointless splat books up my arse.

I know you did not mean to get me onto this but you have caught me at the point where I am about to start playing something else to take a break from 4e.

Sorry for ranting. :)

Hal :hal:
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#62 Lindsay

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:54 PM

One of the reasons we have persevered with this system is becasue so many of the forum members have asked/wanted us to play it. We gained a hug number of new forum members when the sytem came out. Had we known that so many people disliked the way we ran it, I for one would not have tried to keep it going for so long.

I haven't been keeping up with the 4th Edition podcasts. Honestly, it's because the criticism of the system is hard for me to listen to, especially those times (which I assume have become less frequent over time) when the dislike stems from misunderstandings of the rules.


This is hard for me to read. We have done our best, publically, to understand and run something fun and informative, out of something which has been critisized the internet over. We have had times when we have got it wrong, but I thought we were, ultimatly, making people happy with what we were trying to do. This post has bothered me.
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#63 Keener

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:57 PM

Well Hal and Lindsay if any one deserved a bit of a rant (which I would not consider your comments to be) it would be you and your group but as I said earlier I am happy with any audio as long as you and your group are enjoying themselves, which is also why I enjoy the nongame related chatter and banter. :D
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#64 centauri

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:10 PM

This is hard for me to read. We have done our best, publically, to understand and run something fun and informative. We have had times when we have got it wrong, but I thought we were, ultimatly, making people happy with what we were trying to do. This post has bothered me.

I'm sorry. As usual, I'm not coming across the way I intended.

Just please run what you guys enjoy for yourselves. That's when you're at your most fun (and informative) to listen to.
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#65 Ieqo

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:54 PM

You know, guys, we're a friendly and welcoming community here. All of us are brother- and sister gamers. Solidarity, stick it to the man, and all that crap. Hal, Lindsay, and the others to whom we listen have a history of listening to and valuing the opinions of us freeloaders who hang around here because honestly we have nothing better to do than listen to other people play games. I've never said a bad thing about any of them, and I'm unlikely to begin doing so at any time in the future. But...

Sometimes, in the little private part of my brain that still doesn't have an uninterrupted connection to my mouth (or fingers as the case may be), I think that maybe y'all listen to us a bit too much.

Play the games that are fun for you. Full stop. The best audio any of y'all put out are the ones in which you're having fun. Anyone who wants to argue that point can feel free to click on any of the little buttons at the bottom of this post. We smile when you guys smile, and honestly there's only one or two folks here who really care about how loud Chris laughs, or how much cross-talk the Whartsies have, or how ingenious the BAGgers are at sidestepping the story.

As to the specific issue at hand, I know I'm not the only one 'round here that has no interest whatsoever in 4ed, but listens anyway. We'll continue to do so whichever game you play.

There. I've been nice long enough. NOTICE: Anyone who doesn't like the way Hal (or Dulson, or Martin, or Jon, or Danny, or any of them) runs his or her game is hereby entreated to click one of those aforementioned buttons. Any of them. Doesn't matter. Do it. Now.
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#66 Hal

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:59 PM

No worries :)

I certainly intend to :) We will return to 4e once we have had a break. We have been playing it pretty intently for quite a while and a fresh start might be just what we need.

I have a rather nice 5 player game in mind for the interim. Still fantasy but a different flavour :P

Hal :hal:
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#67 Lindsay

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:01 PM

I see what you are saying Iequ, I do, but I find it difficult to take what I see as critical comments (not just Centuri Im talking abou here) without getting offended. Its all very well saying *do what we enjoy* but there is *always* someone waiting to make a comment, whether it be about the game, the system, the way we talk, the fact I dont know the rules, even down to people coughing. We honestly cant win. Its difficult to do this, knowing that people are going to find fault with it in some way. I honestly find doing this difficult, I always have, but lately, Im getting to the point that I have asked Hal to run games without me as I feel way too exposed and way too defensive of this. We all work so hard to make this enjoyable for the people who support us, that when we get it wrong, it upsets me..
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#68 Keener

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:37 PM

We honestly cant win.

Lindsay working in a job where part of my job description is to deal with other peoples screw ups and talk building owners into paying sometimes thousand of dollars to fix those screw ups, I to a certain extent understand how downtrodden you can get for the criticism. One thing I can say though is that you can win, I win every time I successfully solve a problem and the client ends up happier then when the situation started (it happens more often then you would think) and really I recommend to anyone that takes the time to record and post audio to this wonderful site that the best way to win is to do it your way enjoy playing the games and bask in the praise of your fans. There will always be people that complain whether it be in real life or on the internet but as long as you succeed at your goal which in this case should be to entertain yourself with the cursory effect of entertaining others you have won. As well that is why I always try and say thank you for any new audio that is posted not only to the producers but also to Hal and yourself for putting in the time and effort to keep the site running and why some times why I get so excited I just have to ask for new audio. So thank you and have a good evening. :D
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#69 swj719

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:42 PM

I see what you are saying Iequ, I do, but I find it difficult to take what I see as critical comments (not just Centuri Im talking abou here) without getting offended. Its all very well saying *do what we enjoy* but there is *always* someone waiting to make a comment, whether it be about the game, the system, the way we talk, the fact I dont know the rules, even down to people coughing. We honestly cant win. Its difficult to do this, knowing that people are going to find fault with it in some way. I honestly find doing this difficult, I always have, but lately, Im getting to the point that I have asked Hal to run games without me as I feel way too exposed and way too defensive of this. We all work so hard to make this enjoyable for the people who support us, that when we get it wrong, it upsets me..

Solution?

Less 4e

More RM

:D
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#70 Keener

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:43 PM

Solution?

Less 4e

More RM

:D

SWJ you are such a Rolemaster whore. :D
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#71 Lindsay

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:43 PM

I see what you are saying Iequ, I do, but I find it difficult to take what I see as critical comments (not just Centuri Im talking abou here) without getting offended. Its all very well saying *do what we enjoy* but there is *always* someone waiting to make a comment, whether it be about the game, the system, the way we talk, the fact I dont know the rules, even down to people coughing. We honestly cant win. Its difficult to do this, knowing that people are going to find fault with it in some way. I honestly find doing this difficult, I always have, but lately, Im getting to the point that I have asked Hal to run games without me as I feel way too exposed and way too defensive of this. We all work so hard to make this enjoyable for the people who support us, that when we get it wrong, it upsets me..

Solution?

Less 4e

More RM

:D


I see no issue with that..
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#72 Keener

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:45 PM

I see no issue with that..

Oh my god Lindsay run you just agreed with SWJ he must be brain washing you. :D
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#73 Ieqo

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:46 PM

Solution?

Less 4e

More RM

:D


*Shrug* That or we institute new rules that anyone who wants to post something hurtful toward Missus H must first defeat me in a knife fight. Either way I'm good with it.
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#74 swj719

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:54 PM

Solution?

Less 4e

More RM

:D


*Shrug* That or we institute new rules that anyone who wants to post something hurtful toward Missus H must first defeat me in a knife fight. Either way I'm good with it.

May your blade chip, and shatter...
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#75 swj719

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:55 PM

I see no issue with that..

Oh my god Lindsay run you just agreed with SWJ he must be brain washing you. :D

Jooooooooooooooin Usssssssssssss...
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#76 Keener

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:59 PM

Jooooooooooooooin Usssssssssssss...

Us that means there are many of you. :D
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#77 Ieqo

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 09:02 PM

Jooooooooooooooin Usssssssssssss...

Us that means there are many of you. :D


Technically, no. He's just a hive-mind of genetically modified corn. Or perhaps milo.
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#78 swj719

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 09:03 PM

Jooooooooooooooin Usssssssssssss...

Us that means there are many of you. :D

It mean simply that there is more than one...

You will never know how many until it is too late...
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#79 tomlib

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 10:07 PM

Hello All,

I suspect my original, critical post, started the ball rolling and I'm sorry if it made Lindsay or anyone else feel like their efforts were not appreciated.

I don't post a lot and when I do it tends to be a suggestion for improvement which I think can easily be interpreted as a complaint. It wasn't my intention to dampen anyone spirit for putting together a product that brings me a huge amount of pleasure. I love listening to you all role-play.

My bad experiences with high level 3.5 combat leads me to think I understand some of the changes made in 4th Edition. I honestly don't think this is an edition problem and certainly not a problem with the gamers or GM.

I think 4th Edition will be great but that the audio medium doesn't lend itself heavy combat games. For whatever reason the first modules put out by WotC have been very heavily weighted towards combat. I think that will change.

For me, the most enjoyable part of listening, playing, or GMing is when the players become immersed in the world and lose themselves in their character. It takes a special kind of player to be Feylin Hilltopple, rather than Lindsay.

Please, Lindsay, Hal, and all the players, continue on and on, I will listen.

Tom
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#80 PhanXu2

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 05:48 AM

Hope I don't sound critical of any of the group, because if I ever sound that way I don't mean to.

I have issues with 4E, but I still love the system. It is just the way they seem to have thrown away 80% of what roleplaying is. The combat part is great (except for the awful logic of how powers work - which annoys me because they could easily just change the fluff if they could be bothered.)

Even with the problems with 4E I still love listening to the 4E APs. If I didn't I wouldn't keep checking the forums a couple of times a day to see if another one is out yet.

Lindsey, you shouldn't feel upset about comments, when you aren't on the APs it is like a disproportional part is missing from the APs.

Posting on forums has a similar problem to it as the old silent films had. The actors used to have over express their emotions using gestures and facial expressions to get their feeling across.

Only being able to write in one-off statements mutes your ability to express your feelings, along with the fact that the process limits the back and forth converstional elements. People express themselves on forums with extreme emotional vigour, because it is the only way of being noticed and heard (they turn it up to 11.) So if you turn it down to about a 5 you are probably getting the truth.

Its also a pain that everyone gets a fair say (then again - I wouldn't get away with what I say if we didn't). You can't tell people to shut up while half-way through them talking rubbish so you have to go for the throat when making a point.

Plus people can't hit you in the face on the internet. It's a cowards fight. Anyway I'll shut up now.

Wow, is it just me or has your cluster map thing just exploded. You must be doing something right. 8O
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