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Thunderspire Labyrinth Session 14 (DnD 4e Session 25)


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#21 Dungnmaster001

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:47 AM

I have been considering taking a break from DnD 4e and giving something else a go for a while, just to spice the pot back up a little.

What would you guys think?

Hal :hal:


I think that would probably be best as it seems to me some players are beginning to grow tired of DnD and if continued too long may sour them to 4e completely which would be a shame. Part of it is the combat heavy WotC modules, but even without that I've noticed 4e tends more toward combat situations.

I wouldn't mind having something new to listen to for awhile. I do hope you come back to 4e sometime though. I like the system and my group doesn't so these podcasts are one way for me to gain some vicarious enjoyment of it.
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#22 tomlib

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:53 AM

[I think that the official modules are doing a fairly poor job of making for an entertaining game.


Hi Hal,

I just didn't want to come across as ungrateful for all the work you put into this site and the audio files. I don't feel less valid!

I'm glad to hear that it wasn't just me who felt like the combats were consuming too much time and were somewhat repetitive.

BigJackBrass hit the nail on the head from my perspective. It is not an issue with your gaming group, your GM abilities, or 4th Edition but almost solely on the module design. A good module would solve most of these problems I think.

I'm just finishing up my own homebrew Adventure Path using 3.5 and am now working on the next one which will use 4th Edition. I think there is room for a lot of fun with Powers and good gaming.

Anyway, I look forward to whatever game you decide to play next!

Tom
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#23 phillosmaster

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 12:02 PM

I have been considering taking a break from DnD 4e and giving something else a go for a while, just to spice the pot back up a little.

What would you guys think?

Hal :hal:


I for one am a huge Dark Heresy fan, and haven't been able to get a group together to play it. Therefore I'd love to hear you guys run through some of the modules. Though if you are eventually going to replace Rolemaster with WFRP then the two games you play may be too similar.
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#24 woojitsu

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 01:20 PM

I'm always in favor of more CoC, preferably with Lindsay as Keeper. :D
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#25 Tengu

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 01:23 PM

or maybe a session of Exalted would be in order. :twisted: lol
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#26 Ieqo

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 02:33 PM

I have been considering taking a break from DnD 4e and giving something else a go for a while, just to spice the pot back up a little.

What would you guys think?

Hal :hal:


I myself have no preference; whatever you guys feel like streaming into my ears. Of course there may be SOMEONE with an opinion...


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#27 Keener

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 02:42 PM

What would you guys think?

Hal :hal:

Hal what ever make you guys happy I will listen to but as for a personal choice I know you guys really enjoyed WFR when you played it (well except maybe for Ned) and would love to hear something like Cyberpunk 2020 but really do want ever you guys want. :D
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#28 Hafwit

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 03:04 PM

Maybe something short and sweet? I've very much enjoyed running Lacuna as an investigation game with dream.like weirdness. It has some very cool mechanics that keeps the plot rolling at an ever-increasing pace.
The second version is kinda hard to get hold of though.

Apart from shilling one of my favorite games, I agree with Keener. :)
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#29 Daniel

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 04:25 PM

What would you guys think?

Hal :hal:


My Life With Master!
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#30 PhanXu2

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 08:41 PM

4E combat would be okay, but as 4E is all about positioning (square by square) it is difficult to visualize without a visual aid.

The modules are very open door - combat - open door - combat. I would expect that from a starter module like KOTS, but you would think they would have put more RP and plot into the later ones.

If the companies aren't putting out modules that cover all bases, other than just combat, then perhaps some of us could write something.

Anyway, I don't blame you for wanting a rest. I love listening to the sessions and will miss them, but best to rest so you don't become jaded and burnt out on 4E, if that's the way you feel. That way hopefully you will come back to it at some point.

Would really love to hear some WHFRP. Will you be using the new 2nd edition rules?

I was never interested before, but I saw the Cinematic Trailers for Warhammer Online and thought that is the way I always wanted D&D - less YMCA, more trainspotting meets band of brothers, so I looked into the rules and they look good.

Will be glad to listen to anything you put out. This is an excellent place to find out about different RPGs. Like a review only better.

Wow, my posts are always soooo long. Sorry.
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#31 Telemergion

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:19 AM

Yeah, it's been getting fairly obvious some people in your group are a little bored with the 4E game. Lindsay sounded more upbeat in the WLD than she did in the last session, and here her character is actually useful in the never ending combat. Maybe you should homebrew in a wand of wonder, Hal. :P

I have no idea how many sessions difference there is between this one and how many you've actually played, but unless something drastic changes in there I can't imagine opinions changing. And if you're not having much fun, why play it? Pick something off that voluminous shelf, something that might have a linear plot but that allows your players to attack it in whatever bizarre way they see fit.

On the subject of the the Wizards modules, they're not great but they're going to be a godsend for me in a couple weeks. I'm going to be moving at about the same time the PHB2 comes out and my group of online players are interested in trying out some 4E. I won't have time to make a campaign on my own, so I play to use KotS, with a few occasional edits to make it more interesting. They're mostly new and/or indecisive players so the linearness shouldn't be too big an issue either.
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#32 phillosmaster

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:33 AM

I hope I'm not spoiling a surprise but they have half a dozen more episodes in the can. They moved on to another 4th ed module after Thunderspire Labyrinth. 4th ed fans should be comforted by the fact that there are still plenty of 4th ed episodes left to be released. It seems like they will be taking a break after this module though.
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#33 Telemergion

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:47 AM

I hope I'm not spoiling a surprise...


YOU SON OF A BITCH!

:P
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#34 coffeedemon

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 04:00 PM

If we were voting, I would definitely vote "take a break from 4th Ed. D&D" :)

Not that it needs to be said, but you're a fantastic GM/DM, Hal, and your players are excellent roleplayers.

However, I just can't bring myself to listen to any more of the 4th Edition stuff (even as background noise while I animate). Like you said, it feels like one combat after another, with a very simple plot, and very little character / NPC interaction. My favorite stuff was the roleplaying in the town in the first adventure. (I didn't make it through listening to the first adventure).

That said, I think you're all doing a great job of keeping to the spirit of the game system.

I love listening to all the other recordings you've done!
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#35 Cuchulain

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 05:31 PM

Although it would be a pity not to have Splug doing his thing, I think a break from 4E would be wonderful. There's so many good games out there, there's no need to wallow in D&D's latest offering for too long.
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#36 Snappyapple

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 05:53 PM

There's no reason Splug can't make it into other game systems. :twisted: I've no doubts that Splug will still be awesome, I just can't guarantee his survival against the other players.
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#37 eformo

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 06:44 PM

My group at home tried 4e. We ended up quitting the game because the system wasn't all that great. There were other issues too, but we all agreed that the system was not fun to play.

On the flip side, I love the completion of large tasks. I found this site because I was searching the internet for WLD stuff, specifically a record of someone who played through it. Episode 40 had been out for a couple weeks at that point. Now I'm enjoying listening to the game because of the people involved more than the game. However, I'd still get a kick out of hearing them follow through on the whole module series, only for completeness sake. Yeah, that means 7 more modules after Thunderspire.

And I wouldn't wish for a friend to be forced to play that much 4e DnD. If it was 3.x I wouldn't feel so bad. Meanwhile, I'll just keep my fingers crossed that they try 2e again sometime. Those recordings could help get my wife into the edition that I first learned.
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#38 poermanne

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 10:47 AM

I vote for "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan". :D
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#39 Vaeron

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 08:19 PM

Hal, the problem is totally with WotC's module design and their bizarre and user-unfriendly mapping/encounter layout. I disagree with their inherent design philosophy that most if not all encounters should be above the players actual level. It just makes the monsters harder to hit and even longer to kill. And every room having a combat encounter in it is simply ridiculous - their dungeons are artificial, non-living, and meant for nothing but combat.

I still have a number of first edition modules, and while they often had rooms full of traps or combat encounters, many of their dungeons actually approximated an environment someone might live in. A room might have just three or four kobolds in it (not the seven or eight 4e would recommend - or even 15 or so, I'm looking at you KotS!) with wandering patrols that might or might not trigger reinforcements. Monsters didn't all just sit in their rooms as if they had nothing to do with their lives but wait for adventurers. They presented minimal combat stats, because it was very often possible for adventurers to negotiate with their enemies and/or neutrals. In 4e, all they provide are a bunch of tactics and combat stats. Yes, it's all under DM control, but following the material faithfully leads to endless fighting.

Worse, their module design is crap. I've heard you complain about this in the podcasts. They'll give you a map numbered by sections. Then a section with room descriptions. Then a seperate section with the same rooms numbered DIFFERENTLY as combat encounters, to slow things down further as a DM tries to figure out what room is which and why in the world they use different numbers and aren't on the same page! The Tower of Spellguard module actually has a section that says something like "The PC's will need the square jewel they found in room T7, the rectangle from room T3... etc" and I had to ask myself "What jewels?" They were printed entirely seperately from the encounter writeups in a seperate area of the module, and completely overlooked by someone, like me, who anticipated treasure being listed on the page for the ACTUAL ROOM!!!

There's no doubt the players are getting bored of it - they pretty much flat out said they wanted to play Warhammer when you were getting prepped to start Pyramid of Shadows. The games are fun to listen to, the characters are all very funny, but strictly following the WotC's modules to the letter is killing what could be a more organic, fluid experience. I do not like these Encounter Pages they put in the modules to try to control how you're allowed to run things. You'll occasionally try to dispel a fight by having the enemies tell the players to leave or get out, but there's really no reason, outside of WotC being pigheaded, that you should be stuck treating every single room like a combat waiting to happen.

Maybe you should try your hand at making an adventure of your own in 4e - and screw the DMG's advice of making most encounters Party Level +2. Instead, try to actually make them fun! If you're not having fun, then I'd agree that maybe it's best if you all take a little vacation from the 4e.
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#40 woojitsu

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 09:13 PM

Oddly enough, I remember several WotC staff members touting the encounter pages as a revolutionary new help for the DM who is tired of flipping back and forth between stat blocks and other useful combat information. I have not run 4e, only played in it, so I have no first-hand knowledge of these pages' usability. If you are correct in your assessment, though, Vaeron, it seems that their best intentions have led them very far astray, indeed.

BTW, apologies for the tone of this post. I have been watching a lot of Star Trek: TOS recently, and I appear to be channeling a little bit of Spock.
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