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Thunderspire Labyrinth Session 5 (DnD 4e Session 16)


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#41 Murine_Archmage

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:02 AM

Sleep isn't totally useless. It works fairly well if it hits. If nothing else it can slow some creatures down for a bit. Orb wizards do get a bit more usefuelness out of it by using the orb special ability to reduce enemy saving throws against it's effect. (BTW what implement mastery did Stendar go with? I don't recall it coming up before)


Indeed Stendarr did go with Orb mastery. I'd completely forgotten about the reducing saves thing, though (remembered the effect extending part). Thanks for the reminder!
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#42 kcheu

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:46 AM

Hey, just cause i am curious, how is Galadril the ranger doing so much damage with his twin strike since its only 1(W) damage per attack? I think I heard a 28 dmg and then a 19 dmg for this move. I can't do the math to get it that high?
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#43 Wryce

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:45 AM

Let's see... 1W, with a longbow, that's a d10, so 2d10, let's presume he rolls well or crits on both, so that's 20 right there, plus his dex bonus, which I don't know but let's just presume it's four, so twice is 8 extra damage, that's 28 right there. Now add in hunter's quarry for an additional d6 (or I think there's a feat to make it d8s) and that's up to 34 (or 36) damage right there. Oh, and then if his weapon is magic and he gets additonal damage based on his weapons enhancement bonus, plus the additonal extra dice he rolls if he crits...


So there you go. Maths.
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#44 Hal

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:47 AM

His weapon is a +1 Vicious Longbow and he also have Weapon Focus to add an additional 1 damage to each hit. Plus when he crits he rolls a 1d12 rather than a 1d6 because he has a vicious bow.

If he rolls well he can really really pile the damage out.

Hal :hal:
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#45 kcheu

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 11:24 AM

I don't believe that for twin strike he gets to add the dex bonus. Let me see, i think it would go like this. He has two attacks each at 1d10 plus 1d8 Hunters quarry for only one (feat taken), +1 dmg weapon focus each, +1 vicious bow each. so normal hit would be between 4-20 dmg for first hit and 3-12 dmg for second hit. crit adds a 1-12 dmg so the first hit could be 5-32 dmg and the second 4-24 dmg ( both considered crits). I only ask since I try to figure stuff out with my game that I may have missed. Also, maybe you can help out those beleaguered npcs. :twisted:
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#46 Dungnmaster001

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 11:26 AM

Let's see... 1W, with a longbow, that's a d10, so 2d10, let's presume he rolls well or crits on both, so that's 20 right there, plus his dex bonus, which I don't know but let's just presume it's four, so twice is 8 extra damage, that's 28 right there. Now add in hunter's quarry for an additional d6 (or I think there's a feat to make it d8s) and that's up to 34 (or 36) damage right there. Oh, and then if his weapon is magic and he gets additonal damage based on his weapons enhancement bonus, plus the additonal extra dice he rolls if he crits...


So there you go. Maths.


You don't add dex on Twin Strike. It's just the 1W per attack
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#47 Dungnmaster001

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 11:31 AM

I don't believe that for twin strike he gets to add the dex bonus. Let me see, i think it would go like this. He has two attacks each at 1d10 plus 1d8 Hunters quarry for only one (feat taken), +1 dmg weapon focus each, +1 vicious bow each. so normal hit would be between 4-20 dmg for first hit and 3-12 dmg for second hit. crit adds a 1-12 dmg so the first hit could be 5-32 dmg and the second 4-24 dmg ( both considered crits). I ony ask since I try to figure stuff out with my game that I may have missed. Also, maybe you can help out those beleaguered npcs. :twisted:


Crits maximize the damage (including hunter's Quarry but not the extra dice from the crit) so you're correct except that for the crit numbers it'd be 20-32, and 13-24.
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#48 Hal

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 02:00 PM

That sounds about right.

The thing with the ranger is that he seems to rarely hit with both of his attacks :) But when he rolls well and then rolls good damage he is a monster :)

Hal :hal:
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#49 Merlin

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 07:23 AM

That sounds about right.

The thing with the ranger is that he seems to rarely hit with both of his attacks :) But when he rolls well and then rolls good damage he is a monster :)


I've noticed on the recording that the encounter powers ("Thunder Tusk Boar Strike!!" etc.) which add in the Dex bonus get really obscene. I've got a Two-Weapon Ranger in my group and he whines about not doing enough damage. The "Legolas" archetype got the hookup in 4th edition and the "Aragorn" archetype got boned, it seems. :P
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#50 Wryce

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:15 AM

Maybe Ned can look into the Beastmaster archetype. I think I heard it was in the new Martial Power book, I thiiink. I think I saw something for a two-weapon fighter, if you don't want to be a ranger, but I forget where. Two of my RPing group are big fans of 4ed, so I'm exposed to all the new stuff coming out, without all those irritating cost factors to worry about.
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#51 Dungnmaster001

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:38 AM

Maybe Ned can look into the Beastmaster archetype. I think I heard it was in the new Martial Power book, I thiiink.


Beastmaster is in the martial power book, but based on the few previews I've seen on it, it doesn't look that good. I think it's mainly there for flavor. You have to spend your actions to get your pet to do something. Unlike 3rd edition where a pet was almost a 2nd character, in 4e the pet and master are practically treated as one person in 2 bodies.

Here's a link to the preview article from WotC on it.

http://www.wizards.c...d/4ex/20081020a

Without seeing more details on the beastmaster specific powers and such it's looking like it'd be better sticking with ranged or two weapon types. Unless you really want a pet for RP reasons.

I think I saw something for a two-weapon fighter, if you don't want to be a ranger, but I forget where. Two of my RPing group are big fans of 4ed, so I'm exposed to all the new stuff coming out, without all those irritating cost factors to worry about.


Two Weapon Fighters are also in the Martial Power book (they're called Tempest Fighters) and they actually look decently balanced I think.
Here's the link to a small preview on them also (at the bottom of the article)

http://www.wizards.c.../dramp/20080905

(edit. forgot to actually paste the link to the beastmaster article. Fixed now)
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#52 James

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:56 AM

Really?

Do we need really need to up Galadrin's damage factor?
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#53 Tengu

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 11:17 AM

That sounds about right.

The thing with the ranger is that he seems to rarely hit with both of his attacks :) But when he rolls well and then rolls good damage he is a monster :)


I've noticed on the recording that the encounter powers ("Thunder Tusk Boar Strike!!" etc.) which add in the Dex bonus get really obscene. I've got a Two-Weapon Ranger in my group and he whines about not doing enough damage. The "Legolas" archetype got the hookup in 4th edition and the "Aragorn" archetype got boned, it seems. :P


in a campaign (1 of 4 that i play in) i am currently running a shifter (long tooth) (two bladed) style ranger. and i have to say.. i deal large amounts of damage. i have a +2 bloodclaw long sword, and a +2 cunning scimitar. (i use the scimitar to boost dazed and slowed from my frenzied skirmish ability).

i deal 2 damage to myself, and add +4 to my weapons damage with the long sword. (1d8+3 str, +2 magic, +4 property) for a max of 17 points of damage. (this is not including my hunters quarry, and leather hunter feat (+1d8) and when i am bloodied, and shift. i regen 2 hit points. so the damage just keeps coming. (nice little combo)

with the scimitar it's a bit less. but with my current power list. i have many abilities that can deal out a world of hurt. (jaws of the wolf, frenzied skirmish, disruptive strike. etc..) i feel in general that the ranger is the best striker. needless to say, my DM hates my ranger. lol.

but i feel my DM's pain.. i currently have an Eladrin Ranger that wields a greatbow in my campaign...a d12 per arrow... pure madness..
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#54 kcheu

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 01:26 PM

Really?

Do we need really need to up Galadrin's damage factor?


well actually i was trying to remedy that for your dm by getting it lowered :)
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#55 Ieqo

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 01:29 PM

Really?

Do we need really need to up Galadrin's damage factor?


[scoff]...and you call yourself a munchkin.
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#56 Telemergion

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 06:12 PM

Well on the subject of Ned becoming a beast master, that ship has sailed. You pick it at character creation as a third option to Bow or Two-Weapon style (kinda). Ditto with the Tempest - aka Two-Weapon fighter. He could always reroll, but he seems to be doing reasonably well with his current build.

My ranger uses a hand crossbow. She's not exactly queen of the damages. Once she gets some cash, though, she's gonna pull out a Thunderburst Repeating Crossbow and let loose like a machine gun.
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#57 eleventh

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 02:26 AM

Beastmaster is in the martial power book, but based on the few previews I've seen on it, it doesn't look that good. I think it's mainly there for flavor. You have to spend your actions to get your pet to do something. Unlike 3rd edition where a pet was almost a 2nd character, in 4e the pet and master are practically treated as one person in 2 bodies.

[rant]Maybe compared to previous versions of the Beastmaster, the preview appears to be lackluster. But for one, I'm sure they'll balance it out so that its on par with the other classes (and definitely not just there for "roleplaying purposes"). And for two, in my experience, I found the idea of having one person controlling two characters (in the PC and its pet) to slow down the game considerably and focus an inordinate amount of time on that player. By sharing actions with the pet in 4e, you can still flank with yourself or influence opposite sides of the battlefield without hogging the game.[/rant]

In terms of the session 5 podcast, it was lots more fun. Thanks for hours of entertainment! My only disappointment was not hearing Hal do Splug's voice and dialogue... that's my favorite part and though your guest did a pretty good job, I would have greatly preferred him to roll some other temporary character.
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#58 Merlin

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 02:29 PM


I've noticed on the recording that the encounter powers ("Thunder Tusk Boar Strike!!" etc.) which add in the Dex bonus get really obscene. I've got a Two-Weapon Ranger in my group and he whines about not doing enough damage. The "Legolas" archetype got the hookup in 4th edition and the "Aragorn" archetype got boned, it seems. :P


in a campaign (1 of 4 that i play in) i am currently running a shifter (long tooth) (two bladed) style ranger. and i have to say.. i deal large amounts of damage. i have a +2 bloodclaw long sword, and a +2 cunning scimitar. (i use the scimitar to boost dazed and slowed from my frenzied skirmish ability).

i deal 2 damage to myself, and add +4 to my weapons damage with the long sword. (1d8+3 str, +2 magic, +4 property) for a max of 17 points of damage. (this is not including my hunters quarry, and leather hunter feat (+1d8) and when i am bloodied, and shift. i regen 2 hit points. so the damage just keeps coming. (nice little combo)

with the scimitar it's a bit less. but with my current power list. i have many abilities that can deal out a world of hurt. (jaws of the wolf, frenzied skirmish, disruptive strike. etc..) i feel in general that the ranger is the best striker. needless to say, my DM hates my ranger. lol.


That sounds pretty good. The players are going to have a tougher time with weapon optimization, however, since i don't do the wishlists thing. I think it's a little silly. Now, when they get Enchant Item it might be on. . .

I think the difference lies in character optimization. D&D 4E is pretty unforgiving of people who like to have well-rounded ability scores. Not having an 18 (20 is even better) in your primary attack stat is a pretty big kick in the junk. It is dissapointing to me that most players must seek a max stat to reach parity with the 50% chance to hit that the game seems to assume.

I assume with a Two-Weapon ranger you're also pursuing the armor feats because your dex is falling by the wayside? That's another complaint, but good with the bad and all that.
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#59 JoeGun

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 02:43 PM

Hi All,

There have been a couple comments in the audio podcast during Thunderspire where Lindsay says that the group rolls their dice weird, and Hal interjects that it seems to be an "American" thing. I was just curious as to the differences between the way Lindsay rolls her dice and how for example David rolls his dice? Is it a roll it across the table vs. rolling in front of you thing? or is it actually the way in which you roll the dice in you hand and how it leaves your hand?

Just curious. For the record I usually try and put some topspin on my dice and have them roll around a foot in front of me, so they get some good roll time, yet don't end up so far away I can't read them.
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#60 Merlin

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 07:26 AM

Hi All,

There have been a couple comments in the audio podcast during Thunderspire where Lindsay says that the group rolls their dice weird, and Hal interjects that it seems to be an "American" thing. I was just curious as to the differences between the way Lindsay rolls her dice and how for example David rolls his dice? Is it a roll it across the table vs. rolling in front of you thing? or is it actually the way in which you roll the dice in you hand and how it leaves your hand?

Just curious. For the record I usually try and put some topspin on my dice and have them roll around a foot in front of me, so they get some good roll time, yet don't end up so far away I can't read them.


I sort of assumed that the Americans gesticulate wildly before rolling, and then fire the dice more than roll them, and that Lindsay and/or Hal neither engage in histrionics nor launch the dice from a trebuchet.

Although launching dice from a trebuchet or approximations thereof can be a lot of fun.
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