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How broken are you?


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#41 Qwaz

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 02:46 PM

Of course, neither are even close to what you guys are coming up with, you're all so....broken


Oh i don't know, you sound like you could use a Make whole yourself :roll:

Theglen, i see. I misunderstood. So the player got a prize for cheese but the character got nout. Pity after such a briliant battlecry! :wink:
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#42 Phneri

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 09:58 AM

Most recent escapade of brokenness in going through NWN2 with a buddy.

Monk 5/Fighter 4/Ranger 11

Weapon specialization in Kamas, which he could dual wield AND use flurry of blows with. Could wear some of the monk-only gear as well as bracers of armor and the other standard rings of protection, etc. Also got his full dex modifier (plus a dex bonus item) and wisdom modifier (along with a periapt of wisdom) onto the armor. This was topped off with improved evasion and the ludicrous save bonuses achieved from having a character whose primary attributes mesh with the save modifier attributes.

By the endgame he was using 2 holy flaming kamas (extra 3d6/hit) for 8 attacks/round, had an AC in the 50s (no armor, so this was also his touch AC), and every saving throw was in the high 20s/30s. On top of that he had a pet wolf (Ranger levels) that could occasionally get lucky and trip an opponent, and a couple fun nature spells. With a small strength modifier, lots of enchantments on the kamas, and favored enemies, his damage output wasn't too shabby, either.

I haven't tried the monk/ranger blend in a PnP setting (though it should still work well). I seem to remember a prestige class that focused on dual-wielding with a handaxe and a dagger that had lots of nifty bonuses. As both of these are finessable and flurryable I'd think that would fit this guy well, but I can't seem to find that prestige class.
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#43 Balgin

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:43 AM

Well NWN/NWN2 both cheat in that they don't take away alignment dependant class features if your alignment changes. I've heard of a lot of players abusing that (monk/barbarians & stuff like that).
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#44 Phneri

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:54 AM

Well NWN/NWN2 both cheat in that they don't take away alignment dependant class features if your alignment changes. I've heard of a lot of players abusing that (monk/barbarians & stuff like that).


This is true with paladins, etc, but monks don't lose class abilities when they change alignments, they just can't advance as monks. That and rangers can be lawful :)
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#45 woojitsu

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 11:45 AM

I haven't tried the monk/ranger blend in a PnP setting (though it should still work well). I seem to remember a prestige class that focused on dual-wielding with a handaxe and a dagger that had lots of nifty bonuses. As both of these are finessable and flurryable I'd think that would fit this guy well, but I can't seem to find that prestige class.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but handaxes and daggers cannot be used in a flurry of blows. There are feats that allow you to add some quite interesting weapons to your flurry list, however. My personal favorite is Double Steel Strike from the Eberron Campaign Setting; it allows you to use a two-bladed sword in a flurry.
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#46 Phneri

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 12:53 PM

I haven't tried the monk/ranger blend in a PnP setting (though it should still work well). I seem to remember a prestige class that focused on dual-wielding with a handaxe and a dagger that had lots of nifty bonuses. As both of these are finessable and flurryable I'd think that would fit this guy well, but I can't seem to find that prestige class.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but handaxes and daggers cannot be used in a flurry of blows. There are feats that allow you to add some quite interesting weapons to your flurry list, however. My personal favorite is Double Steel Strike from the Eberron Campaign Setting; it allows you to use a two-bladed sword in a flurry.


Ah, you're right. I misread the rule set for monk weapons. Phooey. Ah well, the double Kama works well enough.
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#47 Qwaz

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 05:35 PM

Yes that is a very nice way to get a large number of attacks by 20...I'd always been annoyed by how low the monks to hit could become later on but taking 15 levels in full BAB classes counters that completely with enough monk to get all the things you want. Any reason kama over singham? Was it simply Slashing > Piercing :lol: ?
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#48 roscoe

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 06:43 PM

Well NWN/NWN2 both cheat in that they don't take away alignment dependant class features if your alignment changes. I've heard of a lot of players abusing that (monk/barbarians & stuff like that).


Yeah, they really messed up with the rules.

For the more honest amongst us there was the lovely Sorceror/Paladin/Monk.

Save Monk for level 40 and then zap, instant 40 tumble after saving all the skill points. Ridiculous.

NWN2 sorts that out though with only 5 points being carried over, though you don't need to munchkin it, you can rest often enough that a plain old wizard will kick everyone's stuff in
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#49 Phneri

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 08:49 PM

Yes that is a very nice way to get a large number of attacks by 20...I'd always been annoyed by how low the monks to hit could become later on but taking 15 levels in full BAB classes counters that completely with enough monk to get all the things you want. Any reason kama over singham? Was it simply Slashing > Piercing :lol: ?


For NWN2 it was because Kamas were available, and singhams were not.

IMO the Monk makes a very potent starter class for a finesse-oriented melee build, as the class needs very little, can start with a quite potent AC, and has a bunch of bonuses that carry on well into other classes.
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#50 WerewolfPaladin

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:12 AM

So worth it? Maybe...a good hit'll kill him but a rogues all about staying out of trouble isn't he? You can still get 10 ranks in all the key skills due to the high int. and with many of your hits being sneak attack hopefully your party won't mind that you're much less effective against undead, plants, constructs...etc


Sorry to bring this up, but it isn't as broken as it seems, since you level adjustment doesn't count for anything but how much experience you need to get to next level and what your expected wealth by level is. So you'd be limited to 6 ranks per class skill. The other abilities are really nice, but I don't think they make up for the loss especially when you consider that you're still killable by Cloudkill (no save), Color Spray will still knock you for a loop, etc. :)

Usually I end up being incredibly underpowered for what's going on. One time however I had a Poison Shadow Lizardfolk Ranger (http://www.wizards.c...llery/83019.jpg) who was downing ogre barbarians and ogre magi relatively solo. He was an archer and quite awesome, but he was outdoing the other fighters routinely, so I considered him to be kind of broken.
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#51 centauri

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:27 AM

His last one made ANYONE NEAR HIM stop fighting.

Tell me how that isn't broken...

I just noticed that the calm emotions spell, which was the basis for the effect, has the following text:

Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures.

This gives a DM useful latitude against the effect. Aggressive action could be as little as a sergeant whipping (or maybe just verbally threatening) his grunts from outside the effect. An enemy might stumble on this loophole after catching his own cohorts in a fireball. Then, he could spread the word to his lieutenants to carry splash weapons to "reset" the forces.

If nothing else, this wording at least gives a way for the PCs to free themselves from the attack.

The character generating the aura might argue that the effect just kicks in the next round. I guess that would depend on how long a save against the attack lasts.
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#52 Qwaz

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:42 AM

So worth it? Maybe...a good hit'll kill him but a rogues all about staying out of trouble isn't he? You can still get 10 ranks in all the key skills due to the high int. and with many of your hits being sneak attack hopefully your party won't mind that you're much less effective against undead, plants, constructs...etc


Sorry to bring this up, but it isn't as broken as it seems, since you level adjustment doesn't count for anything but how much experience you need to get to next level and what your expected wealth by level is. So you'd be limited to 6 ranks per class skill. The other abilities are really nice, but I don't think they make up for the loss especially when you consider that you're still killable by Cloudkill (no save), Color Spray will still knock you for a loop, etc. :)


No, excellent poitn to raise i was unaware. I knew you obviously didn't get skil points/feats/attributes for levels taken without a hit dice but i was under the impression that max skill ranks worked from your character level, not your class level. I thought the penalty skill wise to taking the ECL was the complete drop off in skill points available to you and as you say the increased killability due to lack of hit dice and therefore HP.
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#53 woojitsu

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 12:00 PM

You were almost right. Max ranks are determined by your total HD, which is often your ECL. Level adjustment is the exception, increasing your ECL without giving you any additional HD. Thus, lower max ranks.
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#54 Qwaz

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 04:26 PM

Wel damn, that sucks. LA really does give you a kicking but i suppose that the Pixie does give you a lot and is still worth it.

The PHB seems overly vague on this point then. It should be made clearer on page 22 that Max ranks depend not on character level or xp, but on HD gained FROM thaose character levels and xp. But maybe that's confusing for those just starting the game... :?
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#55 woojitsu

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 04:51 PM

Generally, the PHB tells you how a rule usually applies to the game. If you want the actual mechanics of the rule, you're better off looking in one of the other core books.
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#56 Balgin

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 07:41 PM

Wel damn, that sucks. LA really does give you a kicking but i suppose that the Pixie does give you a lot and is still worth it.

The PHB seems overly vague on this point then. It should be made clearer on page 22 that Max ranks depend not on character level or xp, but on HD gained FROM thaose character levels and xp. But maybe that's confusing for those just starting the game... :?


Look it up in the DMG. It's character level, not individual class level or ECL.

So a 1st level ogre fighter can only have put 4 points into any one skill (those 4 obviously being halved to two in cross class - still takes 4 points 'though, that's why I didn't say ranks).
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#57 WerewolfPaladin

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 11:36 AM

Wel damn, that sucks. LA really does give you a kicking but i suppose that the Pixie does give you a lot and is still worth it.


Honestly, I find only LAs of +1 or +2 to be worth it. The only LA +3 I'd consider playing is the Half-Dragon. The loss in saves, base attack, skills, and hit points is generally not worth it. The Pixie does give you a lot of interesting stuff, but here's what you're missing with the Rogue:

+3 Base Attack Bonus
4d6 + 4 * Con Mod Hit points (average of 14 hit points missing with no Con Mod)
32 + 4 * Int Mod skill points
+1 Fort, +2 Refl, and +1 Will
2 dice of sneak attack damage
Uncanny Dodge

But anyways, I'm derailing. I'll stop. :)
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#58 Qwaz

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 05:51 PM

Wel damn, that sucks. LA really does give you a kicking but i suppose that the Pixie does give you a lot and is still worth it.


Honestly, I find only LAs of +1 or +2 to be worth it. The only LA +3 I'd consider playing is the Half-Dragon. The loss in saves, base attack, skills, and hit points is generally not worth it. The Pixie does give you a lot of interesting stuff, but here's what you're missing with the Rogue:

+3 Base Attack Bonus
4d6 + 4 * Con Mod Hit points (average of 14 hit points missing with no Con Mod)
32 + 4 * Int Mod skill points
+1 Fort, +2 Refl, and +1 Will
2 dice of sneak attack damage
Uncanny Dodge

But anyways, I'm derailing. I'll stop. :)


However, most attacks you make will qualify for sneak attack. The low HP is in some way up for by good damage reduction and good spell resistance and your Dex and Int go through the roof. And it's worth mentioning that while you lose that initially, as you level up you do gain it. So Uncanny Dodge, for example, is not forever denied you.

End of the day it's dealers choice really, Just consider all aspects carefully before you try it. :lol:
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#59 Kairgg

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 08:01 PM

I have a broken one for you. Made it myself. It was fun to watch...

Kairgg CE
6th LVL human, Here's the break down...
1LVL of Barbarian
2LVLs of Ranger(2 handed fighting one)
2LVLs of Rogue
1LVL of Bard

And add the Lycanthropy (Werewolf) template for shits and giggles.

And I should state in the campaign we were fighting alot of demons and devils so he was weilding twin scimitars. One cold iron the other silvered... Both merciful.

I should state that this was or gms first time so he didn't see what I was doing to the party till far to late.

The group I was playing with thought I was nuts for being Evil and having merciful weapons. But when you think about it any weapon that let you beat your enemie unconcious and then slit there throats at your leazure not that merciful.
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#60 Keener

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:42 PM

Whats with the level of Bard? :?
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